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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    FWIW (and I may have the video if you're interested) he was alone in vigorously defending Hillary against the neocons in his panel discussion. They all were attacking Hillary and Bill while pretending to be "outraged". He point by point explained that everything said (this was I think prior to the Jesse comment) was a standard part of normal competitive political discourse.
    Thanks, but I'll pass on the video. But I'm sure Juan WIlliams zealously defended Hillary and Bill as "SAFELY" as he could. hahaha
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  2. #22  
    I have said since the beginning that she was unelectable...nice to see it play out this way.

    Despite the Obama love fest now, McCain will win the day...not because I like him, but rather I think the bloodbath in the Democratic Party will turn the independent folks away.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Its been pointed out by others that Obama has had a history of voting "present" on controversial issues.
    Yeah I’ve heard that. But his explanation.... that is..... the issue or bill still needing work sounded plausible to me. Now what I haven’t heard or maybe just can’t remember is if he eventually voted yea or nay.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Whatever the case, most politicians act more nobly when they have nothing at risk.
    I can see that. But Obama is not like Jenny was “from the block.” He did have some standing. Taking a stand that at the time was very unpopular was a risk. Especially if you had in your mind that you might run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    The Jess comment was disconnected from anything other than showing a context (an arguably irrelevant one) that in some way could mitigate the impact of Hillary's prospective defeat in Carolina. (a battle I suspect he felt responsible for having waged.)
    You’re right it was irrelevant, no one asked him about Jesse. That’s a point Bill could have made any number of ways. Jesse Jackson was on Bill’s frontal lobe because he had a purpose. You just needed to know the code.....
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Being a tableau rosa -- a blank slate -- is a huge advantage in the democratic primaries.
    I like tableau rosa a lot, but the phrase used for clean slate is actually "tabula rasa" (latin)
    cheers
    geoff

    Treo 650 1.20 LAP.
  5. #25  
    What happened to Hillary?

    Iowa is what happened. Obama stunned her and every one else with that win. Obama had a plan, Hillary had a "traditional" campaign. To be dead honest, I doubt if anyone in her campaign understood the threat obama represented. After all, history has shown that African-American candidates do not do well by any means. By the time they figured out they had a "real contest" on their hands it was too late.

    I think obama can speak well and all that... but he has something else. He has the ability to run a nation-wide organization with the precision and cunning of any fine ceo. The guy is intelligent.

    Hillary is suffering from underestimating the competition.

    Is she done? We will find out sometime today. With all his wins, obama looks like the stronger candidate... hillary needs some crushing blows to come out of this a strong candidate to go against McCain... if she wins by a small margin, I won't like her chances in Nov.
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  6. #26  
    Well, I think the Republicans win the presidency, regardless of who the dems nominate.

    Not for any reason but: I don't believe the 'people' will let the dems control all three branches of the govt - so, the Republicans win the white house and the dems win the house and the senate.

    I agree with a previous post about not being happy with any of the candidates, on either side of the aisle.

    Hopefully things will work out ....
    RJuhl
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjuhl View Post
    Well, I think the Republicans win the presidency, regardless of who the dems nominate.

    Not for any reason but: I don't believe the 'people' will let the dems control all three branches of the govt - so, the Republicans win the white house and the dems win the house and the senate.

    I agree with a previous post about not being happy with any of the candidates, on either side of the aisle.

    Hopefully things will work out ....
    You have a much higher degree in confidence that the people could be so calculating than I. Obama will lose to McCain because the GOP is far better at defining their opponents. And other than Hillary, I don't think it gets any better than Obama - a liberal's liberal with no experience and a middle name "Hussein". The GOP hate machine has already starting spewing their hate and by the time the real campaign is in full swing I'm sure one of their lies (if not all) will become accepted as fact.

    That said, Obama does have shortcomings that I am uncomfortable with myself. In the world of lesser of the evils, I'm leaning toward McCain - even though I am still miffed at him for rolling over after Rove smeared him and his family back in 2000.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    You have a much higher degree in confidence that the people could be so calculating than I. Obama will lose to McCain because the GOP is far better at defining their opponents. And other than Hillary, I don't think it gets any better than Obama - a liberal's liberal with no experience and a middle name "Hussein". The GOP hate machine has already starting spewing their hate and by the time the real campaign is in full swing I'm sure one of their lies (if not all) will become accepted as fact.

    That said, Obama does have shortcomings that I am uncomfortable with myself. In the world of lesser of the evils, I'm leaning toward McCain - even though I am still miffed at him for rolling over after Rove smeared him and his family back in 2000.
    I don't think it will be the gop... more like the 527s. I don't think McCain is going after obama in that fashion simply because mccain has a lot of dirt in his background as well (he has some ethic issues). Plus, attacks against obama have failed up to this point. Even rove said to stay away from the Hussein name.

    Have you researched McCain? I started two weeks ago and what I've found is the guy goes back and forth on issues. It is not what I expected to find. Even yesterday I was reading the wall street journal and they said that the McCain camp said that a certain section on their site was not the candidates thinking on the issue. (no, I don't have a link, sorry... if pressed I'll attempt to find it). They said he will hammer out his policies during the next couple of months. I mean, really, what, did you post a bunch of stuff on the web to fill your website?

    I'll be interested to see what he finally comes up with though.... and who he picks as a running mate.

    Far as mccain beating obama... I think it will be close. Well, I think it will be close no matter which dem wins. I could run as the dem and it would be close.

    I think obama has some real chances to pick up many of the swing states and maybe (just maybe) a red state or two. Obama will need a strong running mate... go the bush route and pick someone with more experience than most. Obama's challenge is going to be to keep all the traditional blue states...
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  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    What happened to Hillary?

    Iowa is what happened. Obama stunned her and every one else with that win. Obama had a plan, Hillary had a "traditional" campaign. To be dead honest, I doubt if anyone in her campaign understood the threat obama represented. After all, history has shown that African-American candidates do not do well by any means. By the time they figured out they had a "real contest" on their hands it was too late.

    I think obama can speak well and all that... but he has something else. He has the ability to run a nation-wide organization with the precision and cunning of any fine ceo. The guy is intelligent.

    Hillary is suffering from underestimating the competition.

    Is she done? We will find out sometime today. With all his wins, obama looks like the stronger candidate... hillary needs some crushing blows to come out of this a strong candidate to go against McCain... if she wins by a small margin, I won't like her chances in Nov.
    there's much that's true in what you wrote -- except Obama was not really a surprise.

    From the the momment he semi-announced at the beginning of Monday Night Football ("...the Bears baby..."), he'd been regarded as her toughest opponent.

    The complaint all through the debates from the press was why he was waiting to take her on -- why was he not attacking her.

    (when I've more time I may have more to say about that period)
    Last edited by BARYE; 03/14/2008 at 02:50 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by TRgEOff View Post
    I like tableau rosa a lot, but the phrase used for clean slate is actually "tabula rasa" (latin)
    cheers

    Merci beaucoup, monsieur.

    As you probably already know from my picture, I am but a simple Corsican -- a poor political refugee -- and your language is much trouble to me.

    Votre indulgence est très appréciée, mon ami ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ... Obama will lose to McCain because the GOP is far better at defining their opponents. And other than Hillary, I don't think it gets any better than Obama - a liberal's liberal with no experience and a middle name "Hussein". The GOP hate machine has already starting spewing their hate and by the time the real campaign is in full swing I'm sure one of their lies (if not all) will become accepted as fact.
    You describe most of my fears about what will transpire.

    They are no good at governing, but expert at smearing others.


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Voters see Obama now unsullied, unbruised by mud or Swiftboating.

    Come November the GOP scum squad will make him seem unfit for jury duty.



    That said, Obama does have shortcomings that I am uncomfortable with myself. In the world of lesser of the evils, I'm leaning toward McCain - even though I am still miffed at him for rolling over after Rove smeared him and his family back in 2000.
    BARYE would vote for rabid yellow dog sooner than a conservative republican ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 03/04/2008 at 02:37 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I don't think it will be the gop... more like the 527s. I don't think McCain is going after obama in that fashion simply because mccain has a lot of dirt in his background as well (he has some ethic issues). Plus, attacks against obama have failed up to this point. Even rove said to stay away from the Hussein name.

    Have you researched McCain? I started two weeks ago and what I've found is the guy goes back and forth on issues. It is not what I expected to find. ...

    Far as mccain beating obama... I think it will be close. Well, I think it will be close no matter which dem wins. I could run as the dem and it would be close.

    I think obama has some real chances to pick up many of the swing states and maybe (just maybe) a red state or two. Obama will need a strong running mate... go the bush route and pick someone with more experience than most. Obama's challenge is going to be to keep all the traditional blue states...
    yup -- it will be the swiftboat route.

    And like I said before NH, I think Obama can beat McCain, but it will be very close.
    Last edited by BARYE; 03/05/2008 at 02:38 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I don't think it will be the gop... more like the 527s. I don't think McCain is going after obama in that fashion simply because mccain has a lot of dirt in his background as well (he has some ethic issues). Plus, attacks against obama have failed up to this point. Even rove said to stay away from the Hussein name.

    Have you researched McCain? I started two weeks ago and what I've found is the guy goes back and forth on issues. It is not what I expected to find. Even yesterday I was reading the wall street journal and they said that the McCain camp said that a certain section on their site was not the candidates thinking on the issue. (no, I don't have a link, sorry... if pressed I'll attempt to find it). They said he will hammer out his policies during the next couple of months. I mean, really, what, did you post a bunch of stuff on the web to fill your website?

    I'll be interested to see what he finally comes up with though.... and who he picks as a running mate.

    Far as mccain beating obama... I think it will be close. Well, I think it will be close no matter which dem wins. I could run as the dem and it would be close.

    I think obama has some real chances to pick up many of the swing states and maybe (just maybe) a red state or two. Obama will need a strong running mate... go the bush route and pick someone with more experience than most. Obama's challenge is going to be to keep all the traditional blue states...
    Well you make some good points. I want to jump on the Obama bandwagon but just haven't yet. There is a Kennedy-effect though he has and I do like the notion that he could bring more of the country together and restore good will abroad. But the whole voting "present" a hundred+ times bothers me. I'm moderate, but that seems a bit too calculating to me. I guess I need to know more about why he did that before I can get behind him. Of course, if the GOP smear/hate machine pi$$es me off I could easily get behind him.

    McCain is all over the place on his positions - I agree. It bothers me, but then I think perhaps his attempt at being moderate and ability to change positions in the face of changing factors makes me think he would be more balanced that what we've seen out of GWB. His Iraq stance concerns me though...

    ...like I said....lesser of the evils. My opinion may change once we get through the primaries. I was hoping Bloomberg would jump in as an independent but instead we ended up with Nader! Someday before I die I really hope we'll see a viable independent/3rd party candidate.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Someday before I die I really hope we'll see a viable independent/3rd party candidate.
    Got that right!!!
  15. #35  
    Don't worry about Hillary....rush limbaugh is out to revive her!
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Don't worry about Hillary....rush limbaugh is out to revive her!
    Yes. But the motive?
  17. #37  
    Oh...his motives are absolutely pure and innocent
    (at least as far as saboteurs goes)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Don't worry about Hillary....rush limbaugh is out to revive her!
    Looks like Rush gave her mouth to mouth (fitting I thought, since he is a blowhard).

    Impressive wins for HRC. I still think she's toast, but have to admit, I am starting to wonder if Obama got ahead of himself and surrendered momentum to HRC.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Don't worry about Hillary....rush limbaugh is out to revive her!
    Frère Hobbes -- what are you referring to ?? is he planning to vote for Hillary against McCain ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  20. #40  
    No...according to CNN, all this last week he was trying to get Reps (who can vote in the Dem primary in TX) to go out and vote for HRC so that she will remain in the race to add confusion and infighting amongst the Dems so it will go to their convention so that they would have a super delegate fight.
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