View Poll Results: Arduous Development Happens Dynamically.

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  1. #101  
    Hope you aren't implying that I was "disrespecting" young Joshua!
    Not at all.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  2.    #102  
    Lots to cover. Here we go.

    Fever: 107 is the generally accepted limit. I remember having to sit in a tub of ice water when my temp hit 105 as a child. That was shock enough to remain with me for a very long time. Usually the body doesn't need to go that high, it's more a result of heat stroke. The goal of a fever is to slow bacterial growth below that of immunal response. What's more dangerous than temp is pH response. If the body gets beyond 7.35 - 7.45, you got troubles. The body's response to temp is much more honed (it's easier to regulate pH).

    vaccines: don't bother me. I don't get a flu shot, though. They're guessing which strain will make it big, and they're wrong as often as not. And, from personal experience, the virus they administor could hardly be considered "weakened." However, I may not be giving credit where credit is due. I've only had it a couple of times, and that was some years ago (freshman and sophomore in high school). I had not heard that vaccines reduce immune effectiveness. Seems counterintuitive to me, but I'll check around.

    Aspirin/pain medication: no, it doesn't reduce immune effectiveness, but it does reduce the body's threshold for pain. BTW, has anyone else heard about heating a safety pin and melting the nail to release the trapped blood? No one I asked to help me (after slamming my finger in the car door) had heard about it. I had to do it myself - a royal pain to try and heat a safety pin and get it to the nail before it cools to uselessness left-handed.

    marijuana/lsd/etc.: I see no need to ban them. It's easier to follow a link between them and the food we ingest on a day to day basis than it is for antiobiotics or vaccines. Hell, tobacco and alcohol are legal, and they kill just as many - if not more - than illegal substances. I see a great potential to lower my taxes by utilizing the idiocy of others. That said, I've only tried marijuana once, and it was an entirely unpleasant experience that wouldn't have happened if I'd have had to pay for it (which I did anyway, albeit differently than anticipated). Other than that, I'm pure as the driven snow.

    boxed wine: don't drink it. It's bad for you. I don't know if it was alcohol or food poisoning, but it doesn't matter at 4am when your body decides it doesn't want it, nor do you care when you have to pay to have mom's carpet cleaned in exchange for your life. Mom's response to my getting drunk was waking me up at 5:30am to hammer loose nails in the fence, then mow the lawn, then go up to my grandma's house and do the same. Then coming back home to move furniture... I'm looking forward to the first time my son comes home drunk. >;)
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  3. #103  
    " I had not heard that vaccines reduce immune effectiveness. Seems counterintuitive to me, but I'll check around."

    It does from a glance. The problem with vaccines is that they short circuit the bodies natural response. They don't do anything good for general immunity. They are targeted to just the strain they were developed from.

    Proper diet, nutrition, exercise, and rest have a much more positive effect on your immune system than anything developed in a lab.

    I haven't had a flu vaccine since I was a kid. When the flu zips around (did you notice that it's always a "new" version?) I might or might not 'catch' it. I'm usually poopy for a day or less. Compare this to the people who get sick as a dog (after a week of heavy drinking) from whatever strain of flu is making it's rounds.

    Another problem with vaccines is that they expose the strain to many more people than would normally be exposed. This increases the odds that a more virulent form will develop. The vaccine makers are in a great position. They get to save every body continually, while their customers develop their next target strain.

    "Mom's response to my getting drunk..."

    My dad made me go with him to the practice runs at the local oval track. I can still hear those engines revving! Ouch!

    "marijuana/lsd/etc.: I see no need to ban them."

    You can't legislate morality, or common sense. The natural reaction for a large amount of people is to rebel. It's also hypocritical to allow some substances that are known to be harmful, but ban others. That's why both my wife and I stopped drinking and smoking years ago- we felt that it would send the wrong message to our kids. We also don't support the idea of medical prescriptions meant to make people "feel" better. Most people don't "need" drugs to feel better, they just heard of the drug from a friend, or colleague, and said, "Hey, I often am depressed too, I should get Zoloft!" when all they needed to do was take a nice walk in the park, or had a day at home specifically doing nothing. A lot of people want the "quick" fix to a problem they took years to develop.

    Just my nickel's worth
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  4. #104  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike:
    [...] I haven't had a flu vaccine since I was a kid. [...]


    Never had one. Of course, I'm allergic to eggs and hence not allowed.

    [...] That's why both my wife and I stopped drinking and smoking years ago- we felt that it would send the wrong message to our kids. [...]

    Personally, I don't see drinking necessarily sending the wrong example to my daughter. Of course, I'm also a moderate drinker. I probably drink more often than most people, but OTOH, I also probably drink far less at a time (I usually drink a beer three or four nights a week, but rarely drink more than two per night). Of course, I also think that Americans in general have a really uptight attitude about that sort of thing.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #105  
    "Hey, I often am depressed too, I should get Zoloft!" when all they needed to do was take a nice walk in the park, or had a day at home specifically doing nothing.
    Agreed. But, to be fair, there are people with clinical depression, who NEED medication to allow them to function in society.

    Same with a lot of conditions. A lot of them take drugs for the easy fix, like you said. But there are those that take them because they legitimately need them.

    I think it's a case of 'one rotten apple' where we (as in American Society) tend to frown upon drugs as a whole (both medical and recreational) because we tend to focus on the abuser only.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  6. #106  
    Originally posted by Soul Raven
    Isn't that the basic premise of vaccines? To give your body a small taste of a pathogen so that it can better defend itself later on?
    Yes, I guess that is the basic premise of vaccines. But vaccines would require you to take something which is not exactly a "refusal to aid [your immune system] with modern medicine." Which seems to be what Josh is talking about--no vaccines, no drugs. If he's only had the flu twice, he might be onto something.

    What's an ODBC connection?
  7. #107  
    ODBC: Open DataBase Connectivity. It's a standard for data access developed by Microsoft.


    on Zoloft: I once suffered from crippling insomnia (got about a half-hour's sleep a night) and it was prescribed as a sleep aid. I later learned that it's primarily used as an anti-depressant.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  8. #108  
    "(I usually drink a beer three or four nights a week, but rarely drink more than two per night). Of course, I also think that Americans in general have a really uptight attitude about that sort of thing."

    I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant drinking in the sense that you drink. I got a sixpack of Guinness and a sixpack of ale for St. Patricks day. It took my wife and I over a month to finish them. (We usually split one for dinner.)

    As to the uptight thing, I actually see it the other way. Most people around here expect you to go out at least once a week and get hammered. They don't use the term 'falling down drunk', but what they describe come Monday morning sounds like that. We're actually a very tolerant culture when it comes to alcohol abuse. If we weren't, we wouldn't allow any kind of advertising. It's kind of like a bad habit we know we (meaning our culture) have, but we haven't really gotten around to getting rid of.

    If you're a kid and you see your parents get drunk in front of you regularly, it will affect you- one way or the other. If your parents drink one or two beers (or a glass of wine) on a semi-regular basis, but you never, or rarely, see them drink to excess you won't be affected in quite the same way.

    If your kids see you take mood altering drugs (prescription or illegal) on a regular basis instead of any of the myriad of other choices, it will definitely affect them.

    It's not a matter of right or wrong, but of outcomes.

    If we, as a culture, have a problem of drug/alcohol abuse/overuse it stems from no single thing.

    Just like the Communist/Socialist intellectuals have seen what such a system actually produces (and also what rampant big business does), the results of having a personal belief system that encourages people to "do what feels good" and encourages them to "do whats right for me", but actually discourages people to take personal responsibility for their actions (and the results towards others around them) is bearing fruit now. You can't blame a 12 year old for making a horrible choice (drugs, violence) when his parents, schools, neighbors and government shirk personal and moral responsibility at every chance and expect everyone else involved to take up the slack. We parents are the first line of defense for our kids. I realize that lots of kids only have one active parent, for those kids others have to step in.

    You need clear moral guidelines that you can pass down to your kids.

    Example;
    If you ask most people if stealing is wrong they will say yes.

    Yet, how many people keep excess change when they get it from stores, etc. How many people try to take advantage of typos in circulars, even after they know it was a mistake and the store will lose money if they honor it.

    If you find an object that's not yours, and you keep it without trying to find the owner, is that theft, or opportunity?

    Situational morality breaks down because it leads to moral ambiguities.

    Moral ambiguities arise from not have a clear cut moral code. It seem more people are afraid of offending someones feelings than they are of actually stating in public that they endorse a clear moral code.

    And yes, this all relates to whether it's alright to take any substance at the the drop of a hat.

    It's not about denying the worth of some medicines to some people, that would be stupid.

    It's not about denying people the right to enjoy a pleasurabe experience, that would also be stupid.

    It's about not delegating your responsibilities to another, be it a person or organization (religious, political, intellectual, or medical)

    Wow that was long!

    Michael
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  9. #109  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike:
    As to the uptight thing, I actually see it the other way.


    I suppose it's my turn to be clearer now. By uptight, I'm referring to societal attitudes. We have a minimum drinking age of 21. We're in the process of lowering what's considered DUI. In a lot of ways, American society still has a strong Puritanical influence. I'm talking about contrasting American attitudes towards alcohol as compared with a France or Germany.

    Most people around here expect you to go out at least once a week and get hammered. They don't use the term 'falling down drunk', but what they describe come Monday morning sounds like that. We're actually a very tolerant culture when it comes to alcohol abuse.

    No disagreement there, but I'm curious what would be said of one of these people if they mentioned that they let one of their children try a beer.

    It's kind of like a bad habit we know we (meaning our culture) have, but we haven't really gotten around to getting rid of.

    The problem is that 'we' don't understand the concept of moderation. Those substance abusers are all like sinners who have found religion when they stop.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10.    #110  
    This thread is an example of ADHD at its finest.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  11. #111  
    Oh my goodness! VisorCentral has diagnosed me!

    "No disagreement there, but I'm curious what would be said of one of these people if they mentioned that they let one of their children try a beer."

    I agree, that's the hypocritical part.

    "The problem is that 'we' don't understand the concept of moderation. Those substance abusers are all like sinners who have found religion when they stop."

    Again with the agreement. Part of being responsible is to know when to stop. I think that points back to the need for 'experts', we need someone in a position of authority (mommy, daddy?) to tell us what's right to do- with the safety outlet of being able to find new 'experts' if we diagree with the old ones. Quoting differing experts is the debate style of choice for the 'right and left'(no particular political assoc. meant, more just both extremes of any issue)

    Thanks for being diagnosed with ADHD and starting this thread Josh! It's been fun!

    Michael
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  12. #112  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    If you ask most people if stealing is wrong they will say yes.
    I don't know about stealing being wrong ... getting caught, on the other hand ...

    seriously, I think you raise some interesting questions. Any given person may feel they are moral, in and of themselves, doing what they feel is right, which may or may not line up with society-at-large.
    I think America-at-large needs to take a pill (figuratively speaking, of course) and catch up with the rest of the free world. That said, I realise it won't happen in my grandchildren's lifetimes.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  13.    #113  
    If it's real, I have it. Doc says no drugs. He was going to give me a day planner until I hijacked my session advocating the use of visors. The session was free in exchange for some computer work. All in all, not bad. Took some ideas home on how to work around the disadvantages of ADHD, and he pointed out quite a few advantages.

    Sorry to bring the thread back on topic, what were we talking about?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  14. #114  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson:
    Sorry to bring the thread back on topic, what were we talking about?


    *shrug* I wasn't paying attention.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #115  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    This thread is an example of ADHD at its finest.
    LOL

    I was just thinking the same thing. Hah!
  16. #116  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    Took some ideas home on how to work around the disadvantages of ADHD, and he pointed out quite a few advantages.

    Josh,

    Many of us are interested in these, would you mind expounding?
  17. #117  
    Wow, I don't go into Off Topic Enough these days.

    I was diagnosed with ADD at 6. (I'm 25 now). Ritalin was suggested from day 1, however, my parents were against it. I managed quite well up until college, where I had a lot of problems concentrateing. Especially when living in the dorms. At 18, the family and I decided to try Ritaliln. I have to say, it DOES work. Concentration came much easier, frustration levels dropped, grades went up. Of course, when the dose wears off in 4 hours, you are back to your normal (abnormal?) self. However, after a few years on the drug, I noticed it would seem to stop working after 2 hours. I ended up on a schedule of 20 mg, then 2 hours later another 10mg, then 2 hours later another 20mg. This put me on at the legal limit of usage (2400mg /month) ( I think). I unfortunately found that nicotine is would help me concentrate as well.

    Two years ago I Finally said enough is enough; and stopped taking the ritalin. I didn't want to be on it for the rest of my life, especially with the possibility of liver/kidney problems that can result for years of continuous use of any drug.

    Honestly though, I can't say I'm for or against ritalin. It is a personal choice. Ther are many other ways to work through ADD. Diet, Biofeedback, behavioral therapy, just to name a few. I'm really doing it on my own now, but I believe I have things In check.

    Now, I just have to quit smokeing...

    -Adam
  18. #118  
    Originally posted by afabio
    Now, I just have to quit smokeing...
    -Adam
    Adam,
    I used the nicotine gum. Worked for me. Yeah, it's a crutch, so what? I would have also used patch, pills, whatever, all at the same time, if it worked. But, all they had back then was gum. That was 18 years ago.
    good luck,


    But when I'm 99, I want to smoke again.
  19. #119  
    When I was little, they said I had ADD, ADHD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, chronic whining, and lack of focusing on a particular subject for more than a minute. Boy my lawn sure is green. I'd like a lawn mower that I could ride on, because it's so HOT outside! I mean, why must it be so HOT outside. I wish I lived near a beach. Then I could have ice cream whenever I wanted. But I hate how this new-fangled "iced cream" is so COLD! WHY MUST IT BE SO COLD? You know what's REALLY cold? A freezer. Lots of people own freezers. Once, there was this family who owned a freezer, and their CAT got stuck in it! I wonder if cats can catch colds. Once, a kid caught a cold from his cat! That, or he had ADHD!


    As you can see, the doctors were WAY off. I'm perfectly normal. Blue sure is a nice color!
    Last edited by bblue; 06/29/2001 at 03:54 PM.
    <b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"
  20. #120  
    bblue:
    I'll admit it...sometimes I think your posts are funny. For example, I am still amused by your VisorCentral Certified Genius post and continuing avatar. Usually, I recognize when you are goading people for the sake of getting reply posts. I try not to be goaded. Further, I, too, enjoyed some of bkbk's posts...(point being, I'm not just randomly annoyed by you or other...alternative personalities)

    but, really must you call other user's names in all of your posts? (or most of them). It's hard to want to help you in some of these debates--even if I agree with you--when you are also flat-out name-calling. Help me help you.

    I will say that (to your credit) your post was on topic!
    Kelley

    Josh: It sounds like your trip to the MD was better than expected and that he, too, was not interested in putting you automatically on a prescription. As gbgood said, we would be interested to hear the advantages and different types of methods for self-treatment.


    Fixed some typos
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