View Poll Results: Arduous Development Happens Dynamically.

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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    [re: shrink]
    Does that term bug you guys?
    Personally, I always connote 'shrink' as only referring to psychiatrists (since they can directly prescribe something to shrink your head). Skull-f*ck*rs would refer to the more general class.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by Toby
    ...Skull-f*ck*rs would refer to the more general class.
    I've never kill-filed anybody in any forum, but this place has generally been a lot more civil than most, thanks to thoughtful moderation by the staff, without resorting to Big Brotherisms. You directly detract from VisorCentral in my book. It seems there's nothing you will not stoop to just to say something, and to make sure you get the last word in at any cost. Your comments, like the above one, are not jokes, no matter how many smiles you place next to the cut down.

    <PLONK>

    Now, I know I will enjoy VC more without the extra drivel. IMHO, Off-Topic does not mean that anybody has carte blanche to say whatever they want to about others. You are simply being destructive to this group.
  3. #23  
    Whoa. What's with everyone giving Toby so much flak? LarryN...I think you took the thread more off-topic than he did.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  4.    #24  
    Originally posted by homer
    Whoa. What's with everyone giving Toby so much flak?
    It's chic. All the cool kids are doing it.
    Originally posted by LarryN
    Now, I know I will enjoy VC more without the extra drivel.
    Anything to make you happy. Can we keep my thread?
    It seems there's nothing you will not stoop to just to say something , and to make sure you get the last word in at any cost.
    That's rather funny. My experience with Toby has been that he ignores most of the drivel in the forums. His posts are intelligent and thought-out.
    Your comments, like the above one, are not jokes, no matter how many smiles you place next to the cut down.
    Interesting. I'm of the opposite opinion - namely that people need to have sense of humor. There is a big difference between a blatant flame and ribbing that's meant good-naturedly. Of course you don't want to remove all the humor from VC, just the humor that you find offensive. I am of the opinion that if the humor isn't of your liking, you can ignore it - as opposed to advocating a restriction of the type of humor that's allowed here. If someone is offended, it's their responsibility to speak up. They don't need you to do it for them. You're right, the mods do a damn fine job. You aren't one of them. Let them work. I often wonder if Ambrose Bierce or Oscar Wilde would get anything published were they alive, considering today's PC BS whiny society.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  5.    #25  
    headgamer, my shrink is a psychologist, so can I assume that he isn't going to want to drug me? Drugs are not an option.

    homer, what exactly would the advantages of AD(h)D be? Not being able to sit still or pay attention doesn't seem too wonderful to me. My wife is getting irritated having to find everything I lost, not to mention that I tell her I'll help out around the house, but she doesn't let me know when she's starting (because I should be able to see that she's cleaning/washing/etc. and if I really wanted to help I would).

    Are the questionaires I had to fill out (and have my wife and mother fill out, too) sufficient enough to diagnose ADHD? If it's biological, where's the litmus test? If it's mental, I can do it on my own. Why should I have to start taking medication at 22? If I have ADHD, I've had my entire life, and I'm still going strong. How's that truism about fixing things that aren't broken go?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  6.    #26  
    Is my son going to get it (if I have it)?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  7.    #27  
    headgamer, are you going to send me a bill?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  8. #28  
    ....4 posts in a row....

    ....aya....

    ...I'm interesed in the heridity question too...


    <off topic>
    D-R, what's you sig, "-josh" mean?
    </off topic>

    As I read through these symptoms, I'm getting a little worried...

    ...Does ADHD affect memory?
  9.    #29  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    <off topic>
    D-R, what's you sig, "-josh" mean?
    </off topic>
    It's my name.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  10. #30  
    homer, what exactly would the advantages of AD(h)D be?
    First off, go get that book...driven to distraction...it answers a lot of these questions.

    The advantages of ADD is that you probably tend to focus on certain things to an extreme. In my case, I am a designer (artist). A LOT of people with ADD end up as artists of some sort.

    Throughout my school years, I was extremely good at school, but doing homework was (and still is) an agonizing process. When I went to college and found myself as an art major, I was all of the sudden extremely focused on art. I could work on a project for hours upon hours at a time.

    The disadvantages are that I simply am not good at things like paperwork, budgeting, etc..., but I tend to be very good at visualization and creative work.

    Not being able to sit still or pay attention doesn't seem too wonderful to me.
    Its not. I am terrible in meetings. I last maybe 20 minutes. In hindsight, this was the way I was in school as well. I wouldn't absorb much from a lecture class...my mind would be off entertaining itself in about 15 minutes.

    Are the questionaires I had to fill out (and have my wife and mother fill out, too) sufficient enough to diagnose ADHD?
    I can't answer that. However, it has been shown that the people that can best diagnose you, or, at least recognize the syptoms, are those that interact with you everyday (such as your wife). That's why childhood ADD should first be recognize by a trained teacher. I think too many parents try and diagnose their own kids, but these are the parents that see their kids from only 6-9 pm evernight where the kids are begging for attention.

    In my case, the tests I was taking made little sense to me until afterwords. Basically, they were a variety of things to make sure there weren't other problems existing. They were able to cross out depression, anxiety, learning disabilities, etc..

    In my case, it came down to ADD being the ONLY probably cause of my problems, as they were able to weed out any other variables.

    Accoring to my psychologist, the most telling test was the one me and my wife took...they were pretty much identical.

    If it's biological, where's the litmus test?
    From what I understand, there isn't one today, but in a decade or so, they may be able to identify ADD via a catscan. (it is an imbalance in the brain).

    If it's mental, I can do it on my own.
    To a point. It's good to have a 'coach'. My problem is that I can IDENTIFY times when my ADD is acting up (when I interupt people, when I get fidgety in a meeting, etc...) but I still tend to catch myself AFTER the fact. Which is frustrating.

    Why should I have to start taking medication at 22?
    The same reason that you should wear glasses if your eyes are going at 22.

    Medication isn't necessarily bad, just an option.

    I'm going to look into it with my doctor. I have a friend who was diagnosed at 30 and he said medication made a world of difference for him. He is no longer on it, as he has developed coping skills now.

    If I have ADHD, I've had my entire life, and I'm still going strong. How's that truism about fixing things that aren't broken go?
    Exactly, if it isn't a problem for you, why worry? That said, it sounds like it may be a problem for your wife...so you should at least look into your options.

    Is my son going to get it (if I have it)?
    ADD is hereditary. I'm 100% sure that my father has some form of it. He's developed EXTREME coping skills in his life. He forces him to do one thing at a time. He can't even think about the second thing until the first one is done. It is somewhat humorous to watch him get through a conversation at times.

    Again, go read that book. It will answer a LOT of questions for you (and probably bring up a lot more!)
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    headgamer, my shrink is a psychologist, so can I assume that he isn't going to want to drug me? Drugs are not an option.

    [snip]

    Are the questionnaires I had to fill out (and have my wife and mother fill out, too) sufficient enough to diagnose ADHD? If it's biological, where's the litmus test? If it's mental, I can do it on my own. Why should I have to start taking medication at 22? If I have ADHD, I've had my entire life, and I'm still going strong. How's that truism about fixing things that aren't broken go?
    As far as I know there are no states that allow for prescription privileges for psychologist (yet - some states have legislation in process though). So no, he won't be prescribing you any meds. That does NOT mean he won't want to refer you to a psychiatrist for a medication consult, though.

    When it comes to psychological illnesses and issues, there rarely *IS* a litmus test. It's not like most physical disabilities where they can take a blood test or whatever to say, "Yeah, you've got X." As someone mentioned before, that doesn't mean they don't exist; it just means psychological disorders are based in the brain which is such a complex construct that at this point it is near impossible to find that elusive "litmus test". That is why most psychological diagnoses are made via clinical interview and testing - the diagnosis is INFERRED based on history, clinical presentation, and behavior. Psychological diagnosis is as much an art as it is a science (at least at this point). Most evaluations that I do for ADHD do involve questionnaires, both for the individual, family, (and in most cases school officials), a computer test for attention, concentration, and impulsivity, and a good clinical interview - usually both with the individual and family.

    Regarding ADHD and litmus tests, the closest thing to a litmus test is simply your response to medication. The nice thing about most meds these days is that they are getting much more specific about the areas/chemicals in the brain they affect. This results in fewer and less severe side effects, and focuses specifically on the symptoms at hand. Regarding ADHD, I have known psychologists/psychiatrists that have inferred an ADHD diagnosis on smaller children (where testing is more difficult) based on their response to ADHD-oriented medications. This is not always a bad thing. If your symptoms improve significantly on medications, there's one more piece of evidence weighing in toward ADHD. If not, it suggests that something else is contributing toward your symptom presentation. A one- or two-month trial on a medication for ADHD symptoms may be helpful, if for no other reason than to help provide more information to rule in or out the appropriateness of the ADHD diagnosis.

    I don't really see adults with ADHD as being an "it it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of issue. I see it more as a "buggy software" kind of issue. The software runs, but crashes every now and then and doesn't always run efficiently. Does that mean the software is unusable and worthless? Absolutely not. Would it run better if a good patch were available? Absolutely yes. If a patch which resolved the bugs and made things run more smoothly with fewer crashes was available, would you use it? Probably so.

    Hope that helps.

    And btw, Toby. At least you used asterisks when you referred to me and my colleagues as Skull-F*****s. That I guess shows some restraint.

  12. #32  
    The 'Driven to Distraction' book and it's partner, again I apologize but the name escapes me. I'm sure it's in these posts or on Amazon, are incredible for confirming in writing, actual occurances in your life. You will find yourself saying, "yeah, that's me."

    I'm sure your ADHD behavior has often made your wife wonder if you:
    *are doing it on purpose
    *are stupid
    *are just an as*h**e.
    This is almost 'word for word' in those 2 books!
    I really don't mean to be crass just trying to be direct. If you really have ADD/ADHD, you know exactly what I'm talking about here. The rest of you guys are just really as*h**es sometimes.

    *That's why* these 2 books are also great for wives(mostly men are afflicted)to read.
    For us wives, it really helps us to understand more of the thinking/coping process and how to help/understand/coach our husband and sons.

    Now, if they just had drugs for wives.

    It's been mentioned here as in those books, that a visor is an excellent tool for those with ADD/ADHD!
  13. #33  
    ADHD? I, too, laughed out loud when I looked at the sheet (given to us when we visit my step son's psychiatrist/psychologist/shrink) and realized that I do posses some (if not most) of those listed.

    I was not born here in this country (where everything seems to have a quick-fix solution to, my personal opinion) and am doing well professionally (IS Consulting) without any drugging.

    Too many studies, "professional" opinions are giving us some doubts of what kind of illness we have! I tend to be forgetfull at time, however by using the VPL (ToDoPlus, before that Franklin Planner) I am able to track my work without any problems.

    So, if anyone is telling you that you have ADHD and as long as you are capable to perform your day-to-day tasks, I would not bother with any medicine at all.

    That's my 2-penny thought!
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson

    It's my name.
    Your name ain't ****?? <<World tilts crazily on its axis>>
  15.    #35  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn


    Your name ain't ****?? <<World tilts crazily on its axis>>
    Nope. I don't know know ****.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by LarryN
    I've never kill-filed anybody in any forum, but this place has generally been a lot more civil than most, thanks to thoughtful moderation by the staff, without resorting to Big Brotherisms.
    Do you feel better now?

    You directly detract from VisorCentral in my book.
    Hmmm...I'm guessing you missed the humor there. It should be noted that the term was used by several of my psych professors (my degree is in management, and the curriculum allowed me enough psych and sociology electives that I would have qualified for a minor had they been available) in a humorous manner. Now perhaps headgamer is one of those mal-adjusted psychologists who would take my reference the wrong way and assume I meant offense, but my impression is that he's a bit more grounded than that.

    It seems there's nothing you will not stoop to just to say something,
    Funny, but I see a pretty low percentage of threads with 'bulletholes' when I'm looking at all the unread posts here.

    and to make sure you get the last word in at any cost.
    I really don't have time to bother, but I'm sure there are quite a few threads I've participated in where I didn't have the last word. Don't let evidence get in the way of your conclusions, though.

    Your comments, like the above one, are not jokes, no matter how many smiles you place next to the cut down.
    Are you a psychologist? Do you know any? Do you know any with a sense of humor?

    <PLONK>
    Interesting thing to choose to include in our first interaction. C'est la vie.

    Now, I know I will enjoy VC more without the extra drivel.
    "Whatever gets you through the night..."

    IMHO, Off-Topic does not mean that anybody has carte blanche to say whatever they want to about others.
    I agree.

    You are simply being destructive to this group.
    Well, if you're lying about having 'kill-filed' me, then perhaps you'll do me the kindness of substantiating your claim of how exactly I'm being destructive to the group.

    edited for a missing word and a weirdly constructed sentence
    Last edited by Toby; 06/19/2001 at 04:51 PM.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson

    It's chic. All the cool kids are doing it.
    You mean if I want to be cool, I have to start trying to assassinate my own character? A bit too MPD for my tastes.

    That's rather funny. My experience with Toby has been that he ignores most of the drivel in the forums. His posts are intelligent and thought-out.
    Oh pshaw...I'm blushin'

    I often wonder if Ambrose Bierce or Oscar Wilde would get anything published were they alive, considering today's PC BS whiny society.
    One of my favorite Stephen King stories (an interesting little vignette called "Rage") would have never been published (and actually is the only one AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $that$'$s$ $been$ $excluded$ $from$ $reprints$) $in$ $today$'$s$ $society$. $Granted$, $King$ $was$ $the$ $one$ $who$ $made$ $the$ $choice$, $but$ $it$ $still$ $shouldn$'$t$ $have$ $been$ $necessary$, $IMO$.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by headgamer
    As far as I know there are no states that allow for prescription privileges for psychologist (yet - some states have legislation in process though). So no, he won't be prescribing you any meds. That does NOT mean he won't want to refer you to a psychiatrist for a medication consult, though.
    That's how most of the ones I know work things. Much better than the recent trends of GPs going all willy-nilly prescribing things (it should be noted that this is the over/mis-diagnosis that I was mainly referring to in my previous reference if anyone wasn't clear).

    When it comes to psychological illnesses and issues, there rarely *IS* a litmus test.
    IMO, this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed in the mental health field (or more accurately in the medical field as a whole). Now, obviously there are conditions in which behavioral therapy is the solution, but I feel that any time medicine comes into the picture, we need to step up the science behind its indications.

    [stuff that I'm not going to address since it would be counterproductive]

    And btw, Toby. At least you used asterisks when you referred to me and my colleagues as Skull-F*****s. That I guess shows some restraint.

    Well, it was the preferred pejorative of a couple of my psych profs that I really liked, so I figured you'd either roll with it (since it wasn't directed at you), or you'd get uptight (which would suggest that I'd probably be better off not dealing with you in the future). You didn't seem to be the uptight type, so I figured there wouldn't be much harm (LarryN notwithstanding).

    Incidentally, how much stock do you put in MBTI and do you think there's likely any correlation between temperament type and AD(H)D? The reason I ask is that I occasionally participate in an INTP mailing list, and AD(H)D and some similar conditions are a frequent topic of discussion.

    edit: fixed a mangled quote
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #39  
    .
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20.    #40  
    You better watch out. Dietrichbohn has a thing against 4 posts in a row.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
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