View Poll Results: Democract Primary

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • Barack Obama

    37 69.81%
  • Hillary Clinton

    13 24.53%
  • Another Democrat Candidate (and share below who)

    3 5.66%
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Results 121 to 140 of 285
  1. #121  
    It looks as if Obama is running away with this one.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I watched the videos of this... her talking about it and then the event. Have to say I'm fairly surprised... I had to do some work and could not research, but I'm hoping the event she described happened someplace else... if not, I'd say she straight up lied.

    Clinton: I Made a Rare Error When I ‘Misspoke’ About Bosnia Sniper Threat



    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03...sniper-threat/
    it was at best, an unfortunate imbellishment of a memory (and yes, I know how its spelled).

    Its the sort of thing that came from her (fairly) pointing out that she is far more experienced than Obama.

    Experienced in the sense of being a long time player and a participant on the national political stage, as being a veteran of the wars of slash and lies from conservatives and from the media. Of having gone through campaigns, governance, setbacks, and triumphs -- both as a Senator, at the White house, as "co-governor of Arkansas", and as a senior congresssional staffer during the time of Nixon's impeachment. She was one of the original senior staffers of the Children's Defense Fund. ...

    In sum she has had a lengthy, deep, and varied public career.

    A career and life that has made her much more prepared to be President than Obama's.

    Her intelliegence and experience were well showcased during the months of debates. Which is the primary reason Obama has ducked agreeing to any more with her.

    But she probably felt an unconscious need to illustrate the substance of the 3 am phone call ad in a way that gave it some drama and imagery.

    It was regretable because it was unneccasary. And because its easy for looping on cable shout fests, and because it will become a standard comic reference on Sat. Night Live and Leno.

    was it fatal ?? Not yet sure...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    it was at best, an unfortunate imbellishment of a memory (and yes, I know how its spelled).

    Its the sort of thing that came from her (fairly) pointing out that she is far more experienced than Obama.
    Or it was an indication of desperation and demonstration of the lengths she'll go to win.

    Granted, we as a nation like tenacity. We even have high tolerance for misinformation. But we frown on bold-faced lies. And coming under sniper fire or not is not the type thing that a civilian would mis-remember or mis-speak about.

    The unfortunate part is that such a blatant "mis-speak" will likely overshadow the significance of this:
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Experienced in the sense of being a long time player and a participant on the national political stage, as being a veteran of the wars of slash and lies from conservatives and from the media. Of having gone through campaigns, governance, setbacks, and triumphs -- both as a Senator, at the White house, as "co-governor of Arkansas", and as a senior congresssional staffer during the time of Nixon's impeachment. She was one of the original senior staffers of the Children's Defense Fund. ...

    In sum she has had a lengthy, deep, and varied public career.

    A career and life that has made her much more prepared to be President than Obama's.

    Her intelliegence and experience were well showcased during the months of debates. Which is the primary reason Obama has ducked agreeing to any more with her.
    That said, I agree that
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    ...she probably felt an unconscious need to illustrate the substance of the 3 am phone call ad in a way that gave it some drama and imagery.

    It was regretable because it was unneccasary.
    Indeed
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    And because its easy for looping on cable shout fests, and because it will become a standard comic reference on Sat. Night Live and Leno.
    No doubt
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    was it fatal ?? Not yet sure...
    If so, at least she'll have something she can point to as cause of her undoing, rather than having to admit that the people just wanted somebody else.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    ...

    If so, at least she'll have something she can point to as cause of her undoing, rather than having to admit that the people just wanted somebody else.

    her undoing is not yet entirely undone.

    I may devout () some words to the what and why of it in the "what happened to Hillary" thread.

    As usual Shop, your response to my post was reasonable and well reasoned.

    Perhaps somehow you gain by not having any particular passion for any of the candidates left ??

    I suspect you're torn by Obama -- liking him as a person, but not his politics. And what about Hillary, McCain ??

    Who are you supporting, Shop ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    Its the sort of thing that came from her (fairly) pointing out that she is far more experienced than Obama.

    Experienced in the sense of being a long time player and a participant on the national political stage, as being a veteran of the wars of slash and lies from conservatives and from the media. Of having gone through campaigns, governance, setbacks, and triumphs -- both as a Senator, at the White house, as "co-governor of Arkansas", and as a senior congresssional staffer during the time of Nixon's impeachment. She was one of the original senior staffers of the Children's Defense Fund. ...
    Her and obama have the same experience.... the dem with the most experience was bill richardson (actually, I forget who else was running, so I might be wrong there... but richardson has more than hill or obama by a LONG shot).

    Her intelliegence and experience were well showcased during the months of debates. Which is the primary reason Obama has ducked agreeing to any more with her.
    Why is she running from the debate in NC... obama signed up, but her camp is making up excuses... people (media) are confused by her actions... I read bits yesterday about it... seems she is pulling what obama pulled, and saying she has scheduling conflicts, even though the debate is over a month away (I think it is a month or close to it). So there is a such thing as having scheduling conflicts. After those ads she ran about obama and debates, she is the last person on earth attempting to skip one... or even thinking about it.


    was it fatal ?? Not yet sure...
    This lady could have went through watergate and whitewater in the same year and remained on top... no this was not fatal.

    Even I don't think it was a HUGE deal... she got a bit carried away with it. I still don't know if this actually happened and she got the stories mixed up. Plus, obama with his "clean" politics won't capitalize on this. McCain would have had her for lunch....
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  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    ...
    This lady could have went through watergate and whitewater in the same year and remained on top... no this was not fatal.

    Even I don't think it was a HUGE deal... she got a bit carried away with it. I still don't know if this actually happened and she got the stories mixed up. Plus, obama with his "clean" politics won't capitalize on this. McCain would have had her for lunch....
    what's that ??? I smell something --

    something burning ...

    oh oh --

    I think she's toast.

    I've come home to me cave, turned on my DVR to watch the nightly news, and the first 30 seconds of the CBS news is a report that documents repeated variations of the Bosnia story.

    perhaps I'll have more to say later -- maybe in the What happened to Hillary thread.
    Last edited by BARYE; 03/25/2008 at 10:30 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I think she's toast.

    I've come home to me cave,
    You have to give it a couple of days... it will slowly go away... although, more people I speak to seem to be upset that she lied. One lady a supporter of hers, went so far to claim clinton disrespected the men and women in uniform. I've not thought that much into it to go that far.

    I'm wondering if people are mad or if they want her to "just go away." lol
    Last edited by theog; 03/26/2008 at 05:00 AM.
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  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    her undoing is not yet entirely undone.

    I may devout () some words to the what and why of it in the "what happened to Hillary" thread.

    As usual Shop, your response to my post was reasonable and well reasoned.

    Perhaps somehow you gain by not having any particular passion for any of the candidates left ??
    I drew that same conclusion as I re-read what looked like my defense of her candidacy
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I suspect you're torn by Obama -- liking him as a person, but not his politics.
    I was drawn to his oratory skills. But was perplexed by the absence of anything meaty in his statements. I inquired of his stance of relatives who are active in his campaign. They poined me to his website, which did have some poignant points on the issues page. But, then I went to the blogging area. It became evident that he and I did not share perspectives. So, I'm not torn in regards to him specifically.
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    And what about Hillary, McCain ??

    Who are you supporting, Shop ??
    Right now I'm torn between "None Of The Above" and "Nobody in particular"

    Truthfully, I don't see the person serving as the next POTUS making a huge difference in the course of world events.

    What I need to figure out is if that's because I'm a cynic, conspiracy theorist, realist or religious nutcase.
    Last edited by shopharim; 03/26/2008 at 09:18 AM.
  9. #129  
    I guess I'm an optimist - any of the 3 remaining candidates will be better than what we've had the last 8 years.

    But I would agree that this year is much like past elections - it is an exercise in picking your lesser of the evils. I've decided Obama is my lesser of the evils as I think his unique makeup as a person coupled with his communication skills will do us well as a nation both domestically and abroad. The other two will only lead to more of the same divisive bologny we've endured for 16 years.[/quote]
  10.    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    You have to give it a couple of days... it will slowly go away... although, more people I speak to seem to be upset that she lied. One lady a supporter of hers, went so far to claim clinton disrespected the men and women in uniform. I've not thought that much into it to go that far.

    I'm wondering if people are mad or if they want her to "just go away." lol
    I think the issue with the sniper fire is not about the details of the story being wrong, it is about the potential of the intent of purposely embellishing the details for political gain, which unfortunately has a long history with the Clintons. I even had a friend yesterday, who BTW is very left wing, ask how many times can a Clinton cry wolf and fall back on "I just misspoke" or "Depends on what the meaning of the word Is is" type of defense when caught.

    As I think most Bush non-supporters would agree, embellishing the facts is not a positive trait in a leader.

    But, I think exaggerating the reality of a situation as a potential world leader is only a minor issue that HRC is facing with the attention this story is getting. The major one is years of memories of trying to figure out what parts the Clinton have said are true and which ones are "misspoken" to protect their backsides are not positive ones to invoke during a Presidential election campaign.
  11.    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I've come home to me cave, turned on my DVR to watch the nightly news, and the first 30 seconds of the CBS news is a report that documents repeated variations of the Bosnia story.
    While reading through the New links on my homepage, I came across the video from CBS news that you saw. I didn't realize that when she had "misspoken" was only the last time of about 3-4 times she had "misspoken" about this. Maybe I should rethink my last post and flip it around.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    While reading through the New links on my homepage, I came across the video from CBS news that you saw. I didn't realize that when she had "misspoken" was only the last time of about 3-4 times she had "misspoken" about this. Maybe I should rethink my last post and flip it around.
    H. Clinton:

    "So I made a mistake," she said. "That happens. It proves I'm human, which you know, for some people, is a revelation."
    In other words,

    All of you off and leave me alone.

    I still see it going no place... obama does not take advantage of it. Soon as something else happens next week, that will be the new story.

    Does show one thing though... when you are running for office, you need someone on your staff that has the title "History Checker." Obama should have caught this (in a perfect world)....
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  13. #133  
    The redeeming part, as I see it, is that when you look at her giving her explanation, she looks like she doesn't even believe what she's saying. That tells me, she has a conscience. The time to get worried is when the distortion is made while staring directly into the camera and wagging your finger.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    obama does not take advantage of it. Soon as something else happens next week, that will be the new story.
    ...
    wrong.

    he has wheeled out some National Guardio fellow to wail about Hillary's disrespecting the troops. (true btw)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #135  
    Obama picks up an interesting endorsement:

    Obama Picks Up Support from Romney Backer
    By Robert Barnes

    It might seem unlikely that if Mitt Romney was your first choice for president, Barack Obama would be your second.

    But that is the case for constitutional scholar Douglas W. Kmiec, who shocked the conservative legal world on Sunday by endorsing Obama in a post on Slate.com. Besides serving as legal counsel to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Kmiec was co-chairman of Romney's Committee for the Courts and the Constitution, which was to advise him on constitutional questions and judicial appointments.

    "No doubt some of my friends will see this as a matter of party or intellectual treachery,'' Kmiec wrote. "I regret that, and I respect their disagreement.''
    In fact, some of his friends on the right and at conservative legal blogs seemed ready to come after the constitutional law professor at Pepperdine University with a net.

    The professor noted that "Obama and I may disagree" on abortion, gay rights and Supreme Court nominations, among other things. But he apparently disagrees even more with the war in Iraq, President Bush and perhaps Sen. John McCain.
    The rest of the story here http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-t...t_from_ro.html
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    ...

    he has wheeled out some National Guardio fellow to wail about Hillary's disrespecting the troops. (true btw)

    "...The Obama campaign fueled the Bosnia brouhaha Tuesday, sponsoring a conference call with Pennsylvania reporters that featured retired Maj. Gen. Walter Stewart of the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. Stewart said he was assigned to the Army's European headquarters when Clinton visited Bosnia as first lady in 1996. He said her claim that she landed under enemy fire insulted U.S. soldiers charged with her security.

    Clinton's explanation that she misspoke was "really astonishing," said Stewart, who supports Obama.

    "She has no sense of what a statement like that does to soldiers," Stewart said. "She is insulting the command in its entirety..."
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    "...The Obama campaign fueled the Bosnia brouhaha Tuesday, sponsoring a conference call with Pennsylvania reporters that featured retired Maj. Gen. Walter Stewart of the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. Stewart said he was assigned to the Army's European headquarters when Clinton visited Bosnia as first lady in 1996. He said her claim that she landed under enemy fire insulted U.S. soldiers charged with her security.

    Clinton's explanation that she misspoke was "really astonishing," said Stewart, who supports Obama.

    "She has no sense of what a statement like that does to soldiers," Stewart said. "She is insulting the command in its entirety..."
    Oddly enough, not seeing this in the news....

    Like I said, give it a week. Obama needs a swift (BOAT) commercial!

    Obama is still making the same mistake he made in TX and OH... going after mccain like he has this thing in the bag....
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  18.    #138  
    One week until Pennsylvania's Primary. If Hillary can pull a strong a strong showing in the next few Primary's.....how secure will Obama be then when it comes down to the Super Delegate vote?

    Whether you love or hate them, in politics you cannot safely count a Clinton down without having it come back and bite you.

    I still think, no matter the outcome it is going to come down politicing with the Super Delegates. It is the makings of a great TV miniseries....
  19. #139  
    That is it for me... The Boss has spoken.

    How can obama not win PA now? Heck, all of America!!!!

    Bruce Springsteen endorses Obama for president

    Rock star Bruce Springsteen endorsed Democratic Sen. Barack Obama for president Wednesday, saying "he speaks to the America I've envisioned in my music for the past 35 years."

    Springsteen said he believes Obama is the best candidate to undo "the terrible damage done over the past eight years."

    "He has the depth, the reflectiveness, and the resilience to be our next president," the letter said. "He speaks to the America I've envisioned in my music for the past 35 years, a generous nation with a citizenry willing to tackle nuanced and complex problems, a country that's interested in its collective destiny and in the potential of its gathered spirit. A place where '...nobody crowds you, and nobody goes it alone.' "
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/...ma_springsteen

    http://brucespringsteen.net/news/index.html
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  20. #140  
    I've been thinking a lot about the ABC debate and about the wide-spread criticism that it spent too much time on tabloid noise and not enough time on substantive issues. While there are a couple of related threads here, I figure this is the right place to post my thoughts.

    Many people like to think that selecting who to vote for should be a matter of analyzing the "issues" - legislative, judicial, and executive. Just figure out which candidate stands closest to you on the issues that matter most to you. Or figure out who is most committed to helping you and people like you. For these people, debates are about learning more about where candidates stand.

    But I think for most people, character is just as important in their decision. And this is especially true in the Democratic primary where there's not a big difference in policy between Obama and Clinton. And certainly, Obama owes his success thus far over his Democratic rivals more to his charisma and leadership skills than to his actual positions on key issues. People like, trust, and respect him much more than they do Clinton.

    Since voters are judging largely based on personal factors, questions that reveal character are very relevant. But everyone has different ideas about what's important. To some people, there's a lot that can be learned about a person from the friends he associates with; to others, that's unimportant. Some people value symbolic expressions of patriotism; others view it all as silly. And then there are the occassional controversial things a candidate might say. Some people find them to be revealing about a person's values; others dismiss them as insignificant gaffes.

    And people who have their minds made up about someone's character tend to be less interested in this type of information. But if the debate is going to help voters, it has to focus on areas where the candidates differ - and they differ most in their character.
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