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  1. gojeda's Avatar
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       #1  
    So it turns out Limbaugh was actually right.

    Stem cell breakthrough could benefit GOP
    Political 'I told you so'? The debate is over, according to White House

    WASHINGTON - A breakthrough in stem cell research could give President Bush and his anti-abortion allies a political I-told-you-so in a debate Democrats have long been planning to use in next year's elections.

    Bush's twin vetoes of bills to put taxpayer dollars behind embryonic stem cell research, Democrats said, showed that he would let ideology block progress in finding cures to diseases that afflict millions of people.

    Bush insisted that medical advances could be made without destroying embryos.

    On Tuesday, two teams of scientists on different continents reported advances in research that might prove him right, giving his administration a dose of vindication in an otherwise grim last year of office.

    In the journals Science and Cell, the scientists reported that they had coaxed regular human cells into mimicking the disease-fighting potential of embryonic stem cells - without destroying budding human life.

    Debate over, according to White House officials.

    "This is evidence ... that we can get the good results we want from science without cutting corners on ethics," said Karl Zinsmeister, Bush's domestic policy adviser. "Let's not set up a false choice between on the one hand, progress, and on the other hand, ethics."

    Stem cells extracted from embryos a few days old can morph into any type of tissue and are widely considered to hold the greatest promise of treatments and cures for cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and other ailments. But extracting the stem cells destroys the embryo. Bush and his allies consider that crossing an ethical line that taxpayers should not be forced to finance. Proponents of the process say public money would only be used on embryos that would be discarded anyway under the vetoed legislation. NBC VIDEO


    Bush's first veto
    July 19: The first veto of George W. Bush's presidency was a big winner with social conservatives who were angry at the president over Iraq and immigration. NBC's David Gregory reports.
    Nightly News



    And they say the scientific breakthroughs reported Tuesday changes nothing about the debate. All types of stem cell research should be promoted with federal funding, proponents say.

    Additionally, said Rep. Diana DeGette, D-Colo., the years of vetoes and the personal nature of the debate have educated voters to the nuances of the rhetoric. Research on cells derived from adults is not a substitute for embryonic stem cell research, she said.

    "The argument that we need to have all types of ethical research is the argument that sways voters," DeGette said Tuesday. "The White House and the opponents of stem cell research have been saying for years that they think adult stem cells are substitutes. This is not a new argument that they're making."

    "Scientists may yet find that embryonic stem cells are more powerful," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa. "We need to continue to pursue all alternatives as we search for treatments for diabetes, Parkinson's and spinal cord injuries."

    Still, the research and the holy grail rhetoric used by some of the scientists who have championed stem cell research can't be anything but persuasive and memorable to voters less than a year out from balloting. Every House seat, a third of the Senate as well as the presidency will be up for grabs during the 2008 election.

    The Iraq war, Bush's terrorism-fighting strategy and legal scuffles with Congress over executive power have sunk the president's popularity rating to around 30 percent. But the science announced Tuesday could insulate him from attacks by Democrats on an issue that once left him more vulnerable.

    "It solves the ethical dilemma," said Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla. "This should put an end to" the debate.


    "Maybe we can all now reach agreement on what has been an all-too-divisive issue and advance this promising research through the power of federal funds," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.

    Nevertheless, the question of whether taxpayers should finance embryonic stem cell research will make an appearance on the 2008 campaign trail, said its proponents.

    "It's terribly wrong for any politician to be trying to pick and choose one type of ethical research over another," DeGette said. "That issue isn't going away."
  2. fishera's Avatar
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    your forgetting one thing... IT WILL TAKE LONGER!

    they have said it is possible to get stem cells from various other places in your body, but it will take even longer to advance these ways and then discover ways to use them. we have embryo stem cell research RIGHT NOW, LETS USE IT!

    ps: keep your ethics out of other peoples bodies
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  3. #3  
    let's not overlook the fact that this new technique creates cells with damaged DNA. No one knows just what the side effects of that will be.

    As far as repub vs. dem, stem cell research is so far down the list of republican liabilities this will have next to no impact on the election.
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  4. gojeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    your forgetting one thing... IT WILL TAKE LONGER!

    they have said it is possible to get stem cells from various other places in your body, but it will take even longer to advance these ways and then discover ways to use them. we have embryo stem cell research RIGHT NOW, LETS USE IT!

    ps: keep your ethics out of other peoples bodies
    Firstly, we aren't running a 100 meter foot race here.

    Secondly, the benefits of stem cell research - whether it be by growing embryos for harvest (as you support) or by using this new technique - are still quite unknown.

    It seems that the effort to avoid ethical quandaries is a worthwhile one.

    PS: Human embryos are not a commodity like corn. Keep your LACK of ethics of our society.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    ...ps: keep your ethics out of other peoples bodies
    In this discussion, other peoples' ethics are the only option since the people whose bodies are most affected are unable to speak for themselves.
  6. fishera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In this discussion, other peoples' ethics are the only option since the people whose bodies are most affected are unable to speak for themselves.
    well if I was a woman, I would like to think its my choice to give eggs for stem cell research.

    and by chance: tell me your opinion of why using embryo's is against your ethics? straight up... sentence answer.
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  7. #7  
    Quote: By: gojeda at Today 08:02 PM

    Firstly, we aren't running a 100 meter foot race here.


    Nice. I assume you don't have a terminal disease. For your sake I hope not.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    growing embryos for harvest
    Who says anyone needs to grow them for harvest? I would consider that a bit disgusting myself...

    However, there are plenty of them being discarded and, thus, waisted that could be used if certain groups weren't so hung up on stupidity. How is this at all ethical?
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  9. fishera's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    So it turns out Limbaugh was actually right.
    I just need to say it... Limbaugh is a joke! And any current historian or liberal arts professor will agree with me on that one!
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In this discussion, other peoples' ethics are the only option since the people whose bodies are most affected are unable to speak for themselves.
    An independent group of cells is a person? Wow ... Just ... "wow".
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    well if I was a woman, I would like to think its my choice to give eggs for stem cell research.
    Understandable. using the same logic, it would seem that once we go to fertilized egg, the number of interested parties increases to 3
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post

    and by chance: tell me your opinion of why using embryo's is against your ethics? straight up... sentence answer.
    I favor protecting life from inception.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    An independent group of cells is a person? Wow ... Just ... "wow".
    Consider how your life might be different had it not been preserved through that stage of development.
  13. #13  
    Do you support a ban of IVF clinics who destroy such life routinely?
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  14. gojeda's Avatar
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       #14  
    Well damn - if we are just an "independent group of cells", and nothing more, then I gather we can just bump someone off when a lung or a kidney is needed.

    Laughable to say the least, this whole "independent group of cells" line of reasoning.

    We should, by all means, hug trees - but embryos are, somehow, "just a group of cells". LOL!
  15. gojeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    Who says anyone needs to grow them for harvest? I would consider that a bit disgusting myself...
    If you were familiar with the discussion surrounding this issue, you would know that this is the "slippery slope" component to this issue.

    However, there are plenty of them being discarded and, thus, waisted that could be used if certain groups weren't so hung up on stupidity. How is this at all ethical?
    "Discarded"....oy vey.
  16. #16  
    I think it's great that there is another possibility for stem cell research. However the new method is not without its problems. Currently the only way to get them to work is by injecting certain very dangerous viruses. Until they can create the new stem cells without the use of those viruses, it isn't very useful.
  17. gojeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Quote: By: gojeda at Today 08:02 PM

    Firstly, we aren't running a 100 meter foot race here.


    Nice. I assume you don't have a terminal disease. For your sake I hope not.
    I find this quite the poor excuse to ignore ethical concerns.

    If I had a terminal disease, I would accept the fate and live whatever life I would have left to the fullest - just like most everyone else who has a terminal disease does
    Last edited by gojeda; 11/24/2007 at 09:24 PM.
  18. gojeda's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    I just need to say it... Limbaugh is a joke! And any current historian or liberal arts professor will agree with me on that one!
    Well, I am not going to get into what historians or liberal arts professors think of Rush Limbaugh - as their opinions would likely be all of the place and dictated by their own political affinities.

    That being said, I do not care for Limbaugh myself - but credit is to be given where it is due. He has been quite vocal, for quite a while now, that stem cells can be obtained from sources aside from embryos. Now, it turns out he was right.
  19. fishera's Avatar
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    It has been said for years that they can be found in other places besides embryos, so his thinking was that far off.

    As for "killing a person" to create a organ, thats not what the whole idea of stem cell research is! Its about finding out how to create individual limbs or organs, not entire people! Imagine the ability to need a new heart and they have one already "grown" for you... I don't know what kinda sick human would be against helping people without hurting other people.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    Do you support a ban of IVF clinics who destroy such life routinely?
    I don't support IVF. I would not likely to see federal funds supporting the practice.

    I would rather the practice not continue, however, the act of banning by the Government also raises concerns for me.
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