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  1. #41  
    [QUOTE=lifes2short;1376806]Really? Where's the beef?[QUOTE]

    I would think you`d know that is none of your business.



    [QUOTE=lifes2short;]Since you're only talking about it now, your master plan must be to have a remote 3rd place candidate in 2016?[QUOTE=lifes2short]


    How cute! What a funny character you are.



    [QUOTE=lifes2short]You should really research, not 'google', before you spread such falsehoods.[QUOTE=lifes2short]

    Im sure you know all about falsehoods.




    [QUOTE=lifes2short]Saying what you mean and meaning what you say is considered integrity in most societal circles. The soft-pedaled "I have no particular allegiance to any party" BS coupled with sideswiping remarks against Dems, in particular, is a sad, sad joke.[QUOTE=lifes2short]


    I mean what I say and say what I mean. I am sideswiping BOTH parties. You are simply trying to spin what Im saying - THAT is NOT what I would consider integrity in any soceital circle. How can you claim BS? Are you a mind reader now? This is both ignorant AND arrogant. As far as a "sad, sad joke", please, stop your melodrama.
    I have a right to an opinion, and I stand by it. Simply because it is not agreeable to yours does not mean it is a "sad, sad joke". Get over your sanctimoniousness here, shorty.



    [QUOTE=lifes2short]When your attention span can grow beyond 20-second soundbites, you'll come to understand that their positions are commonly known and readily available.[QUOTE=lifes2short]


    My, my, my! You do love to insult those who disagree, dont you? What a mighty big person you are, shorts. How about taking that rude, obnoxious ole attitude down a notch or two so that a civil conversation might take place, heh?



    [QUOTE=lifes2short]When a car runs out of gas, you can either get out of the car and push or be considered dead-weight. I'm sure your 3rd party Presidential candidate in 2016 will publicly thank you personally for all your "kingdom's" sacrifice[QUOTE=lifes2short]



    Thank you for your pretentious profundity there, shorty. Im sure we`re all better off now for the sarcastic contribution. When a hot air balloon is filled with too much hot air, you can either cut the hot air feed or continue blowing off the hot air. In your case shorty, Id suggest you cut the hot air feed.
    Last edited by logmein; 11/19/2007 at 01:27 AM.
  2. gojeda's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    6. gojeda, obviously you can not read so I will cut you some slack.
    This is, of course, a poor defense for you series of shaky, borderline comical, assertions in your previous post.


    Your such a republican, im sure someone else here can back me up on this one... how do republican's win an argument? They read the first half and then don't read the rest. EXAMPLE: Republicans claim abortion is immoral and killing children. Democrats seem to agree that it can be a bad thing in a lot of cases, but its a womens choice to decide... but the republicans only hear the first part.
    Not only do you have a rather poor grasp of the world around you, but your critical thinking skills are remedial.

    You (mostly) stated the position of both camps regarding abortion, but failed to illustrate your central point, which was that only "half the arguement is read".

    Deep philosophiscal differences do not occur because someone "listens poorly". They occur because perspectives are quite different. Abortion has little to do with "one side not listening to the other". It has more to do with the fact that the differences are apparent and profound, making this one of those issues where there is very little middle ground.

    Thats all they want to hear, or thats all their small minds can comprehend.
    Ahh I see...

    So only enlightened minds listen to the Democratic position then? Everyone else has a "small mind".

    Typical...

    Iago, thanks... obviously you have seen the light Oh and by the way, more reading gojeda because I guess you didn't read the part about my family all having different political views, missed that about "mommy" didn't you???
    Perhaps you should actually read what I typed. I did not respond to your families political leanings. I responded to your myopic assertion that somehow a given president's political leanings somehow - magically - enabled your parents to buy two new cars and a house.

    I can understand your discomfort after making such an asinine statement, but there is no need to deny it.

    Lets face the facts, the United States is a Christian nation, but it shouldn't be.
    Why "shouldn't" it be?

    You can bring the point of Seperation of Church and state which DOES NOT EXIST IN THE CONSTITUTION! It was actually a letter from Jefferson but was ruled in the US Supreme Court as Unconstitutional to combine the two.
    The First Amendment says hello.

    Did I miss anything? For all you republican'ts do I need to color code it all also? I can make a Powerpoint presentation for you? Honestly... im all for getting the vote out and the facts straight, regardless of political agendas.
    Talk about speaking from both sides of your mouth.....LMFAO!!
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Clearly, some are incapable of differing with respect. Such personal attacks should be met with antipathy from those who politically agree since those of opposing opinions are also only met with fear and loathing. Once again ... Where's the beef?
    Like I said.
  4. gatorray's Avatar
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       #44  
    Okay, I am going crazy. I never expected this to stay civil since it is hard to stay civil when speaking of politics. I just wish the personal attacks were left out. Wishful thinking, I guess.

    One of the earlier posters stated that I should vote on the issues. And I am planning on doing that. I can't help but think that having a Dem put in office will settle everyone down for a bit.

    I would like to post a question to our older posters. Any comparisons of life during the Vietnam war and now that you would like to share? I am talking about the run-of-the-mill, daily life stories. Did you have the same contempt for politicians then as you do now? Do you feel that the country is on the edge of collapse like you do now? Do you have the same contempt for the "other" parties members like you do now? I am not trying to compare the two military actions we were/are involved in, just the overall feeling of the everyday American.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Like I said.
    I believe it is clear YOU cannot differ with respect. Your soft pedaled insults couched in sarcasm are hardly what one would consider to be "differing with respect." So as far as respecting opposing points of view, shorty, I ask you..."WHERE`S THE BEEF?"

    Such obvious hypocrisy. It`s laughable.
  6. fishera's Avatar
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    #46  
    The first amendment allows freedom of speech, that has nothing to do with religion. Also, if you are ready to read the Constitution, also read what the US Supreme Court says because they decided what it means in cases... not just your blind eye reading the piece of paper.

    The United States should NOT be a Christian nation because we have freedom of religion under the Constitution, prayer banned in public schools, and our 2nd largest population of religious ideals are agnostics and atheist, behind that are jews and muslims. So tell me, why should we be a christian nation?
    Aaron M. Fisher
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  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    I believe it is clear YOU cannot differ with respect. Your soft pedaled insults couched in sarcasm are hardly what one would consider to be "differing with respect." So as far as respecting opposing points of view, shorty, I ask you..."WHERE`S THE BEEF?"

    Such obvious hypocrisy. It`s laughable.
    Ya get what ya give. When you equal-handedly address those who share your loathe of liberals for their obnoxious behaviour, your suggestion will be taken into consideration. We didn't start the fire.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    The first amendment allows freedom of speech, that has nothing to do with religion. Also, if you are ready to read the Constitution, also read what the US Supreme Court says because they decided what it means in cases... not just your blind eye reading the piece of paper.

    The United States should NOT be a Christian nation because we have freedom of religion under the Constitution, prayer banned in public schools, and our 2nd largest population of religious ideals are agnostics and atheist, behind that are jews and muslims. So tell me, why should we be a christian nation?
    Just to be clear here, school led prayer is banned in public school. Individuals or groups can pray to the great spaghetti monster all they want as long as it does not impede the purpose of being in school, ie learning.
  9. fishera's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Just to be clear here, school led prayer is banned in public school. Individuals or groups can pray to the great spaghetti monster all they want as long as it does not impede the purpose of being in school, ie learning.
    not so much... it has been banned throughout my district and I think it is becoming a state law in California, I need to do more research on it. I mean group btw, not individual.
    Aaron M. Fisher
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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    not so much... it has been banned throughout my district and I think it is becoming a state law in California, I need to do more research on it. I mean group btw, not individual.
    No, because that would violate the exact same amendment. You see the First Amendment protects the individual's right to free religious expression from gov't interference. A group of high schoolers can pray their arses off during their free time at school.
  11. gojeda's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    The first amendment allows freedom of speech, that has nothing to do with religion.
    Factually untrue. The first amendment grants several freedoms, not just that of freedom of speech.

    Since you have not read it, I will repeat it here:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    The United States should NOT be a Christian nation because we have freedom of religion under the Constitution
    I fail to see what one has to do with the other. Just because the population has a religious majority does not mean that their government is any less (or more) secular than the next country.

    That being said, the irony here is that our country, which has a Christian heritage, is more tolerant of religious and non-religious folk than many countries that are 'officially' athiest (see China). Then you have Britain, that has a secular slant, seeing many troubled relationships between various religious groups.

    prayer banned in public schools
    It seems that prayer is not so much "banned", but that people are not being forced "to pray".

    Not bad for a "big bad tyrannical Christian" country I'd say.

    So tell me, why should we be a christian nation?
    I'd say we are a Christian nation by majority and by heritage, but grant the citizenry very secular freedoms.

    As such, I am still trying to grasp the meaning of your question.
    Last edited by gojeda; 11/21/2007 at 04:29 AM.
  12. #52  
    What does "a Christian nation" mean anyway?

    Is it (A): A nation with majority of people following the Christian religion, who go about minding their own business and praying to whoever they wish without imposing their views on others.

    or (B): A nation with majority of people following the Christian religion, who go about imposing their ideas on others solely because these ideas are promulgated as a part of their faith.

    I would agree that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence allows (A) but not (B).
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  13. fishera's Avatar
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    #53  
    The 14th amendment also applies... read the entire constitution not just one ammendment!

    oh.. the patriot act also violates the constitution... does that mean it doesn't exist?
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  14. gojeda's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    oh.. the patriot act also violates the constitution...
    "Blurting" out opinions, like you did here, is not particularly particularly convincing, however feel free to support the position. I think you will find it more constructive.
    Last edited by gojeda; 11/22/2007 at 01:10 AM.
  15. #55  
    Gojeda, you patience is commendable.
  16. gatorray's Avatar
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       #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    What does "a Christian nation" mean anyway?

    Is it (A): A nation with majority of people following the Christian religion, who go about minding their own business and praying to whoever they wish without imposing their views on others.

    or (B): A nation with majority of people following the Christian religion, who go about imposing their ideas on others solely because these ideas are promulgated as a part of their faith.

    I would agree that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence allows (A) but not (B).
    I see a thin line between A and B. People have the freedom to choose their religion in this country, but they follow laws that are based on Christian principles. This country is truly a melting pot of religion. The tricky part is establishing laws that don't favor one religion over another and allows all to practice freely.

    Religious freedom is tricky, though. Do we allow a woman to cover her face for her drivers license because her religion requires her to? I say no, your face should be uncovered. There has to be a common denominator amongst society that we all subscribe to. Otherwise, we will all do whatever we feel is right for ourselves (due to our own interpretation of religion) and not for society as a whole.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gatorray View Post
    I see a thin line between A and B. People have the freedom to choose their religion in this country, but they follow laws that are based on Christian principles. This country is truly a melting pot of religion. The tricky part is establishing laws that don't favor one religion over another and allows all to practice freely.
    If one uses the 10 commandments as their argument about this being a Judeo-Christian nation, they also, errantly, believe that recorded history on the topic of societal civil and criminal law began with Moses. This also cuts to the chase on the issue of the generic American mindset that prevents others from, or objects to, or will not make time for their own intellectual curiosity.
  18. #58  
    I take exception with the common assertion that this (US) is a "Christian" nation and that our laws are "Judeo-Christian".

    The major laws in US are similar to those around the world, even in nations like India, and European nations (that don't proclaim themselves as Christian). Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie on the witness stand etc etc. In fact, one can argue that the major laws are non-sectarian (even if the sect in question is Christianity).

    Let's look at the 10 Commandments and how it pertains to US and other major democracies:

    I am the Lord thy God - too vague - not coded into law
    Thou shalt have no other gods before me - same as above
    Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol - not a law
    Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God - not a law
    Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy - Best sales are on Sundays !!
    Honor thy Father and Mother - universal value
    Thou shalt not murder - universal law
    Thou shalt not commit adultery - no law, universal value
    Thou shalt not steal - universal law
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor - universal law
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house - no law
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife - yeah, right!!

    So, I bet all world is covered by these commandments, at least as well as US is. Does that make the entire planet a "Christian" planet? Many would take exception.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Ya get what ya give. When you equal-handedly address those who share your loathe of liberals for their obnoxious behaviour, your suggestion will be taken into consideration. We didn't start the fire.
    "Ya get what ya give." Spare me. You curiously ignore the fact that I criticized the right as well as the left. Are you willfully refusing to see that? What I find obnoxious is the insistence that I am ONLY attacking the left.

    Just as one may criticize the right, (as you often do around here), one may also criticize the left. Nothing wrong in doing both at the same time, as both are deserving of criticism. Your willful intent to misrepresent what is discussed here will ALSO be taken into consideration. You started the detour
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    "Ya get what ya give." Spare me. You curiously ignore the fact that I criticized the right as well as the left. Are you willfully refusing to see that? What I find obnoxious is the insistence that I am ONLY attacking the left.

    Just as one may criticize the right, (as you often do around here), one may also criticize the left. Nothing wrong in doing both at the same time, as both are deserving of criticism. Your willful intent to misrepresent what is discussed here will ALSO be taken into consideration. You started the detour
    Your thinly veiled biases are plain to see. Those with integrity have no need for veiled agendas, nor for sock-puppets.

    Back to the actual subject at hand.
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