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  1. #21  
    Aaron Fisher, thatnk you for that lenghty post.

    You have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how clueless the teens of today are, and how far you have to go in growing up.

    I will give you a point by point later, but in the meantime, just remember that life of a well-off teen in the Southland does not a nation (or world) perspecitve make.
  2. #22  
    This may surprise you - I am not a Giuliani supporter, though if he gets the Republican nomination...

    Anyway, Edwards working-class? He may have started at that level, but he has removed himself out of that category. Edwards does not believe that the average citizen can do anything for himself, that this country and its basic values are broken - socialism is what Edwards is pushing.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Republicans are so amusing. They've all got a hard-on for Giuliani who has a history of standing for none of their core platform but he polls well in a National so they're leaning towards him so they can win. All they care about is winning regardless of position or principal.

    The fact that Edwards is not leading the nationals is proof that working-class Americans either don't care about themselves or don;t even understand who is screwing them.
  3. #23  
    You obviously have not researched Edward's platform. Edwards is the best candidate for the working class of our country.
  4. #24  
    You need to go back and do your homework.

    The economy is for the most part far stronger than it has ever been. You speak of Clinton - the economy was depressed during his administration and the only thing going for him was his ability to make everyone think they felt good.

    As for the Patriot Act - how has the affected you or the rest of us? I am sure you are aware that we are at war - other side wants you dead.

    You speak of religion? This nation is without doubt a Christian nation - the vast ajority of us have no problem with religion playing an important part of our lives and in case you forget, the country itself is based on Christian-Judea principals. If you really look deep in to this you will find the problem to be more of a culture war - the secular progressives are the ones causing the problem. They cannot win at the ballot box, so they do their thing in the courts...

    There are problems, but most people do not see a need for a drastic change. Liberty is still here even though we are at war.

    You say that Bush is the voice of the few? Bush may not be popular, but he is far from the voice of the few. His basic moral principals are what represents the vast majority of this country. His willingness to stick to a goal, unpopular it may be, is also something many admire. Look at Clinton - she cannot make up her mind and has been seriously hit on it. She acknowledged it last week and in the same presentation refused to answer a simple question.

    Look at Obama - this man simply refuses to say Yes or No, though he normally takes a stand.

    Harry Reid? oh, gosh, what a looser.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by fishera View Post
    I am only 15 but I know what I want to do when I grow up... politics. In 2.5 years I will be going to law school to get a law degree and also major in poliscience.

    Today's game of politics is more like a circle with no ends, thats the problem. After reading this whole thread and getting questions from people all the time, they ask "why the heck would you wanna become a politician!?"... its simple... because they have the power to change the world. Politics isn't about playing sides, its not about money, its about helping people. Another reason is because the earliest memory in my mind is the 2000 Presidential election. Yes it was an election, yes Gore did win, no it was not a popular vote thing... it was a US Supreme Court rulling that ultimatly ruled Bush as President.

    What I can tell you about my life before Bush is that my family was able to purchase two homes, moving from Woodland Hills in the Valley of Los Angeles to suburban California... afford 2 new cars for my mother and my father and support any family member in need... that was under Clinton.

    Since 2001, we have been screwed! I don't think tis because ive become more aware of anything because my family sees the same way, we are pissed and partly scared. I started reading into politics and history after Sept 11th and its scary. The US Patriot Act takes away the Bill of Rights and basically sets us back to times before the Magna Carta! I can not imagine not remembering all of the problems we have today.

    Ok... SO NOW to the actual point of the thread. The democrats are less corrupt then the Republicans. The Democrats are actually the voice of the people.. but lets say the republicans are christians. No offense to religion, ill keep my personal beliefs out of this... but the United States ware formed "to create a more perfect union" cited for the US Constitution and so far we have been doing a **** job! Allowing religion to play a role of any kind in politics is tearing our nation apart!!!! If we were like this 100 years ago, the idea of a land of opportunity wouldn't exist... if you were white it would.

    Since Carter became President *yes a democrat, not all are amazing leaders* there has been this notion that religion is politics, and its NOT! Our nation was not founded for that! It was actually founded by religious outcasts that didnt want anything to do with the Church of English. PS: You can blame Henry the 8th for the split of the Church (if im not mistaken that is, could be Charles the 8th, get the roman numerals confused sometimes)

    The republicans are the voice of the few, is more like a... "Bush is an amazing leader... for 1% of the population!" The rest are blinded by religious beliefs, oh the CHOICE of abortion is wrong! Oh killing innocent people in Iraq so an amazing thing to do, but "killing" a non-born child is a sin! TOTAL HYPOCRITES! Its not even a difference of opinion anymore... its fact verse fiction and the republicans are living in fiction! As for alt. energies and global warming... fine, be a dumb-*** and don't believe science, thats fine because you "evangelical republicans" still dont believe Jesus was a JEW! *I am a jewish atheist btw, similar to Karl Marx, so dont say that doesn't exist* BUT your republicans got us into a country "war, yet not because congress never declared it" that has risen our oil prices to nearly $100 a barrel and my folks and friends are paying $4 for a gallon of gasoline in Southern California... so for the sake of OUR money, the money that fuels your capitalist interests, find a cheaper way to get us around... because you republicans seem to be disconnected to the fact that if every American were to stop driving tomorrow, you would be poor as HELL! Remember that we are the majority *the middle class* and your the minority! We have power, if brought together, you don't!

    I support Hillary Clinton for President... not because she would be the first women President or because she is a Clinton, or because my family supports her... because they didn't until about a week ago. Trust me, in my house, we have thrown things because we were pissed at eachother over legislation of illegal immigration, medicare, socialist medicine, wars, computers, etc. They are democrats, but we can still have differences of opinion of course. Hillary Clinton has experience, she is a brilliant women... bet most of you didn't know she used to be a republican! She saw the light =D

    And as for responsibility... I can tell you that we do it in ASB, elected representatives of my high school's student body. I was elected class President last year and so far we have not only pushed for new things, actions, and such... but we are passing out forms to people who are turning 18 before the mid-term elections in California on Feb 5th, 2008... yes, i get to work the polls also! =) but, I mean... I am also involved with JSA *Junior State of America* and am assemblyperson of that at my school, which has a major impact on all of Southern California's JSA's.

    My point is, read up, watch the news, many sources of course, and make an opinion. Also, don't fault the current Democratic majority congress for not being able to stop the "War" because only the president can stop it... sad but true. Although Harry Reid's idea of leaving the lights on so Congress is technically in session so Bush can not use executive privilege and appoint people to positions is utter brilliant!!!!!!!!

    PS: One day I will be President and change the face of politics forever, like Machievelli. Thats not a wish, thats a promise. and I never break my promises!

    -Aaron Fisher
  5. #25  
    Edwards wants to tax us to death. More taxes make us better off? No, less takes and more money in our pockets make us better off. Look where socialism has put Europe. The government is not there to provide for our every need.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    You obviously have not researched Edward's platform. Edwards is the best candidate for the working class of our country.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    This may surprise you - I am not a Giuliani supporter, though if he gets the Republican nomination...
    I'm certain maintain-the-status-quo Fred Thompson welcomes your support.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I will stop here because the rest of your post was shockingly ignorant. I hope you make the most of the education that you, apparently, desperately need.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    You have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how clueless the teens of today are, and how far you have to go in growing up.

    I will give you a point by point later, but in the meantime, just remember that life of a well-off teen in the Southland does not a nation (or world) perspecitve make.
    I say cut the kid some slack. His rhetoric may not be as bombastic as some, (not one....."indeed") hahaha but it seems he sees the big picture. At least as far as what Republicans stand for.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    I say cut the kid some slack. His rhetoric may not be as bombastic as some, (not one....."indeed") hahaha but it seems he sees the big picture. At least as far as what Republicans stand for.
    Clearly, some are incapable of differing with respect. Such personal attacks should be met with antipathy from those who politically agree since those of opposing opinions are also only met with fear and loathing. Once again ... Where's the beef?
  9. airibis's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post

    You speak of religion? This nation is without doubt a Christian nation - the vast ajority of us have no problem with religion playing an important part of our lives and in case you forget, the country itself is based on Christian-Judea principals. If you really look deep in to this you will find the problem to be more of a culture war - the secular progressives are the ones causing the problem. They cannot win at the ballot box, so they do their thing in the courts...
    Come on, I wish to throw that concept into the bullsh*t box

    Yes, while the majority of our country is say "Christian"(frankly most of them do a **** poor job at being decent Christians)

    but I will give you that; however to say this is a "Christian" country is complete and utter bullsh*t.

    You are forgetting next to Christians, the second largest group is either Atheist or Agnostic (I for one am Agnostic, I choose to live by science/fact than theology; but please don't waste your time posting a rebuttal about my beliefs. )


    You say "the country itself is based on Christian-Judea principals"; yet then the contradiction comes when the country was based on a "Free land, where there is a separation of religion and state"


    hm.... Separation of religion and state.... wow, doesn't that sound familiar? isn't that mentioned in a VERY important US document...?? hmm?

    and yet sooooo many people over look that *shakes head*





    Don't get me wrong, I respect Christians, and am a good guy at heart.

    however, PLEASE do not force what your "book" says into the laws and constitution i follow.

    I understand you think you are doing good by introducing your ways of life to the rest of the people in the country, "wishing everyone a joyful and happy time, and for no one to be damned to hell"

    but that doesn't do anything for me; not everyone believes in a hell, or heaven (remember that)



    So to end this with some advice


    You chose the path you chose, you either found it yourself, or were raised into it; good for you.

    Rather than try to make everyone else just like you, how about live life the way you see fit, make the choices you want for yourself, AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE'S CHOICE ON LIFE ALONE.




    thank you.


    - Jeff




    (^^;; some how I expect this post to get flagged with alot of negative replies, being majority of the members here feel Religion mixed with State is a good thing.... *sigh* i tried)
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Edwards wants to tax us to death. More taxes make us better off? No, less takes and more money in our pockets make us better off. Look where socialism has put Europe. The government is not there to provide for our every need.

    Ben
    Again, read the campaign platform. You're just spewing general rhetoric.

    I'd hardly equate trying to keep good paying factory jobs in the United States socialism.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    I say cut the kid some slack. His rhetoric may not be as bombastic as some, (not one....."indeed") hahaha but it seems he sees the big picture. At least as far as what Republicans stand for.


    Seriously. At least he's a teenager even applying some cycles to civics.

    He might even vote when he turns 18!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Edwards wants to tax us to death. More taxes make us better off? No, less takes and more money in our pockets make us better off. Look where socialism has put Europe. The government is not there to provide for our every need.

    Ben
    But then don't come begging for government programs when you feel the need for them. Everybody and their uncle will be demanding their share of Medicare and SS, disability when they need it.

    And, yes, the "don't tax me .. leave more in my pocket" crowd will NEED Medicare when they grow old and get chronic diseases.

    Everyone is not lucky enough to go out with a bang in a sudden car crash when they turn 62.

    Where do you think the $ for your favorite govt. programs comes from? Taxes. So does the $ for your favorite smart bombs. And the people who keep the lead out of the toys and poisons out of our medications.

    Pay as you go.
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  13. gojeda's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    I say cut the kid some slack. His rhetoric may not be as bombastic as some, (not one....."indeed") hahaha but it seems he sees the big picture. At least as far as what Republicans stand for.
    I am sure he sees the "big picture" from mommy's' basement. You two, apparently, have a lot in common.
  14. gojeda's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by airibis View Post
    You are forgetting next to Christians, the second largest group is either Atheist or Agnostic (I for one am Agnostic, I choose to live by science/fact than theology; but please don't waste your time posting a rebuttal about my beliefs. )
    Are you saying Christians reject science?

    You say "the country itself is based on Christian-Judea principals"; yet then the contradiction comes when the country was based on a "Free land, where there is a separation of religion and state"
    Where is the contradiction? Most countries with a Christian majority have a formalized, if not 'de facto', separation of church and state. The US is not unique in this regard.

    hm.... Separation of religion and state.... wow, doesn't that sound familiar? isn't that mentioned in a VERY important US document...?? hmm?
    By the way, the worsd are "separation of church and state", not "denial of the church by the state" (or vice versa).

    however, PLEASE do not force what your "book" says into the laws and constitution i follow.
    Too late, they're there already.

    I understand you think you are doing good by introducing your ways of life to the rest of the people in the country, "wishing everyone a joyful and happy time, and for no one to be damned to hell"

    but that doesn't do anything for me; not everyone believes in a hell, or heaven (remember that)
    Superfluous...

    Rather than try to make everyone else just like you, how about live life the way you see fit, make the choices you want for yourself, AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE'S CHOICE ON LIFE ALONE.
    Last I checked, this is the status-quo.

    Sounds like you have an axe to grind to be honest.
    Last edited by gojeda; 11/19/2007 at 03:30 AM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    Pay as you go.
    Indeed! The only way a democratic republic can survive long-term. The primary reason why running the government as a business is idiocy.
  16. #36  
    Fishera:

    Pay no mind to those treo geeks. Hurry up and become president already. Our nation needs you. If your countrymen & women (teens & adults) were half as involved as you claim to be we would all be much better off. Follow your dreams.
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  17. fishera's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Fishera:

    Pay no mind to those treo geeks. Hurry up and become president already. Our nation needs you. If your countrymen & women (teens & adults) were half as involved as you claim to be we would all be much better off. Follow your dreams.
    FINALLY... someone else here has some common sense! I will address all of your ignorant points stated by all you Fascists one by one.. oy, this is going to be long. Don't worry if it hurts, your privatized healthcare system will just charge you through the roof to make it stop. hehehehe

    1. Whoever said here that we are "at war", I believe it was bclinger, you are sadly mistaken. When Congress gave approval to use military force on Saddam Husain, they did not declare war. Read the constitution mister, if the United States declares war, we must use every weapon in our arsenal... nuclear winter anyone? Because apparently thats what bclinger thinks we have at the moment.

    2. "Its the economy, stupid!" was a famous slogan used by the first Clinton presidency when running to beat H.W. Bush in '92. Although this was the year I was born, I have gone back and read legislation from the 102nd Congress. For all of you out there, the Congress numbers going up every term, we are currently the 110th Congress. Under Clinton, the United States had a projected federal budget surplus for the first time since 1969! What is our surplus now? Oh wait, we don't have one... are you willing to put the down payment on that $9,117,912,380,420.23 we have? Well... paying your share would be about $30 thousand, can you please hand that over in that tax you are unwilling to pay and bashing edwards for proposing? Thats what I thought. Oh and "Clinton, or any President (Republican, Democrat, socialist, fascist....whatever), did not enable your parents to buy two new cars and get that home in suburban California - YOUR PARENTS made that happen." is complete bull**** as this has everything to do with the economy.

    3. Someone stated, again bclinger that "the otherside wants you dead"... who exactly? Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11, so who is this so called otherside we aren't fighting currently? Please, if you are curious about the attacks on 9/11, I will gladly purchase a copy of both the 9/11 Commission Report and The Iraq Study Group Report and have them sent to you. Seriously, I will!

    4. Ok, some humor. Bush is the voice of the people?? Are you freaking kidding me! He can barely say NUCLEAR!

    5. daThomas, I plan to vote when I turn 18... as I even said in my first response, I am working the polls in all elections throughout 2008, what are you doing to help get the vote out? Nothing, so if you don't care or vote, shut up and sit down!

    6. gojeda, obviously you can not read so I will cut you some slack. Your such a republican, im sure someone else here can back me up on this one... how do republican's win an argument? They read the first half and then don't read the rest. EXAMPLE: Republicans claim abortion is immoral and killing children. Democrats seem to agree that it can be a bad thing in a lot of cases, but its a womens choice to decide... but the republicans only hear the first part. Thats all they want to hear, or thats all their small minds can comprehend. Iago, thanks... obviously you have seen the light Oh and by the way, more reading gojeda because I guess you didn't read the part about my family all having different political views, missed that about "mommy" didn't you???

    7. Lets face the facts, the United States is a Christian nation, but it shouldn't be. You can bring the point of Seperation of Church and state which DOES NOT EXIST IN THE CONSTITUTION! It was actually a letter from Jefferson but was ruled in the US Supreme Court as Unconstitutional to combine the two.

    8. One last thing.. whoever criticized my public education, watch you mouth man. I take AP History classes and Honors English classes, not to mention I am a Sophomore in High School and have already started my Freshman year at Pierce College in Southern California to get stupid subjects out of the way. Whos the one laughing now.. oh look at that... ITS ME!

    Did I miss anything? For all you republican'ts do I need to color code it all also? I can make a Powerpoint presentation for you? Honestly... im all for getting the vote out and the facts straight, regardless of political agendas.
    Aaron M. Fisher
    CEO of Sonicfish Consulting
    www.SonicfishConsulting.com

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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    Aaron Fisher, thatnk you for that lenghty post.

    You have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how clueless the teens of today are, and how far you have to go in growing up.

    I will give you a point by point later, but in the meantime, just remember that life of a well-off teen in the Southland does not a nation (or world) perspective make.

    I think if anyone has shown ignorance it's you. What you said is completely baseless, over generalized, and downright rude. Instead of rebutting his comments you attacked his intelligence. You really should apologized for that snide comment.
  19. #39  
    ^^Agreed^^

    Even more inappropriate when the verbal abuse is directed towards a minor.
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The attitude that both parties suck and politicians will always do nothing is a defeatist attitude that allows one to ignore one's responsibility to knowing what their politicians are doing (or not doing) and holding them accountable.

    If your politician isn't doing what you want, call them and tell them. Write an editorial, do something. But quit whining for a magical third party to come into existence to make everything peachy.
    It`s not a defeatist attitude. It is simply stating the reality, and how do you know I haven`t or am not doing something proactive already? I think you`re being just a bit presumptuous there, daT! "Quit whining?" I think "some people" here should take such advice.
    Last edited by logmein; 11/19/2007 at 01:38 AM.
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