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  1.    #1  
    Anybody see the Vincente Fox interview on Larry king (Oct 8)?

    Note this exchange from the rush transcript:

    KING: E-mail from Mrs. Gonzalez in Elizabeth, New Jersey. "Mr. Fox, I would like to know how you feel about the possibility of having a Latin America united with one currency?"

    FOX: Long term, very long term. What we propose together, President Bush and myself, it's ALCA, which is a trade union for all of the Americas. And everything was running fluently until Hugo Chavez came. He decided to isolate himself. He decided to combat the idea and destroy the idea...

    KING: It's going to be like the euro dollar, you mean?

    FOX: Well, that would be long, long term. I think the processes to go, first step into is trading agreement. And then further on, a new vision, like we are trying to do with NAFTA.
  2. gojeda's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Anybody see the Vincente Fox interview on Larry king (Oct 8)?

    Note this exchange from the rush transcript:
    Well, I think there is little doubt that the EU has helped the poorer European countries immensely. I can help but wonder, however, if rich European countries feel like they have gained much of anything.

    Of course, the dynamic in Latin America is much different than Europe pre-EU.

    I, for one, am far more concerned about the falling dollar at the moment.
  3. #3  
    Europe gain a cheap manufacturing base, which improved competitiveness with India and China.

    Surur
  4. #4  
    I think it's about time it happened....

    The South American druglords have mountains of US cash.....

    The illegals are sending US money south.......

    You can buy stuff on a Canadian Roach Coach with US currency.....

    Maybe I can claim a foreign national on my taxes.

  5. gojeda's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Europe gain a cheap manufacturing base, which improved competitiveness with India and China.

    Surur
    Are you sure about that?

    Countries like the United Kingdom would disagree with that assesment wholeheartedly.

    Eastern Europe, for sure, has benefitted in the area of, for example, electronics manufacturing. But how has that benefitted Western Europe, which will see the inverse effect of a declining manufacturing base for electronics as a result?

    The problem here is that while Eastern Europe has become the relative "sweatshop" for the rest of the continent, the wealthier Western Europeans are bound by the EU union to pick up the tab.

    That is the problem I see with these Unions. The problems of, say, Bulgaria are now, all of a sudden, Ireland's problems.

    Is that a good thing? I am not too sure.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Are you sure about that?

    Countries like the United Kingdom would disagree with that assesment wholeheartedly.

    Eastern Europe, for sure, has benefitted in the area of, for example, electronics manufacturing. But how has that benefitted Western Europe, which will see the inverse effect of a declining manufacturing base for electronics as a result?

    The problem here is that while Eastern Europe has become the relative "sweatshop" for the rest of the continent, the wealthier Western Europeans are bound by the EU union to pick up the tab.

    That is the problem I see with these Unions. The problems of, say, Bulgaria are now, all of a sudden, Ireland's problems.

    Is that a good thing? I am not too sure.
    Europe is socialist. We are used to working for other people. Anyway, Europe has freedom of movement, meaning you can relocate to where the work is if you want.

    Surur
  7. gojeda's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Europe is socialist. We are used to working for other people.
    Surur
    I think you are painting with a mighty-big and wide brush there Surur.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Anybody see the Vincente Fox interview on Larry king (Oct 8)?

    Note this exchange from the rush transcript:
    Yeah I saw that. Larry (softball question) King needs to call it a career, but that’s another thread.
    I’m surprised Fox was so honest in the interview. But then again, he really didn’t say anything that isn’t already obvious. The signs are all around us. Just look at how the Constitution gets trampled on, with so many different issues. Government officials act as if the document is now obsolete. Every day something outrageous is occurring or being exposed, and no measures are being taken to correct the problems or either it's always to little to late. It’s positively exhausting trying to keep up.

    The EU model seems to be what’s in store for the U.S. There won’t be any votes, or debates, you’ll just wake up one day and come to the realization that your America doesn’t exist anymore. And why? Well basically, sovereignty hinders profits.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  9. #9  
    North American currency? We have it. It's called the dollar.

    Central and South America are mess...sorry, I don't think I want to fund their problems.

    Fox and Mexico is so gd corrupt, I believe nothing they say.
  10. gojeda's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    And why? Well basically, sovereignty hinders profits.
    An astute observation and one that accurately frames the situation for many countries in Europe.

    Then there are of course, the exceptions:

    The UK, which is part of the EU - but 'kinda' isn't - is a case where their economy doesn't appear to be hindered by their sovereignty.

    Of course, there is also our economy, which has almost consistently outperformed the EU's since its inception - and will likely overtake it within the next few years (amazing as that sounds).

    Latin America, unfortunately, is a basket case with a few exceptions. I am not so sure that profits would outweigh those concerns

    The capitalist values three things, the first two are interchangeable:

    1. Keeping the shareholders happy
    2. Profits

    and a close third...

    3. Stability

    Latinmerica doesn't provide the third.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    An astute observation and one that accurately frames the situation for many countries in Europe.

    Then there are of course, the exceptions:

    The UK, which is part of the EU - but 'kinda' isn't - is a case where their economy doesn't appear to be hindered by their sovereignty.

    Of course, there is also our economy, which has almost consistently outperformed the EU's since its inception - and will likely overtake it within the next few years (amazing as that sounds).

    Latin America, unfortunately, is a basket case with a few exceptions. I am not so sure that profits would outweigh those concerns

    The capitalist values three things, the first two are interchangeable:

    1. Keeping the shareholders happy
    2. Profits

    and a close third...

    3. Stability

    Latinmerica doesn't provide the third.
    Of course, it depends on what you mean by “stability.” If I’m the typical robber baron looking to exploit, I would find Latin America very stable. Abject poverty, docile work force, no real societal institutions providing a safety net or even a history of such, what else could a robber baron want? Seems very stable.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  12. #12  
    years ago -- a year or so before the EURO was introduced, I had a heated discussion with the ambassador from Spain at some party.

    I told him that the EURO would never work. That the Germans would never relinquish the MARK, that they would never trust the French or the Italians or the Spanish to control their budgets and spending, that the Germans would not be willing in the end to give up their Central Bank, that the average European would never trust a non-national trans-european currency, that the Dollar was the natural denomitive vehicle of trade.

    I left dizzy at my own brilliance, completely admiring the logic of my arguments.

    Looking back, I was maybe not entirely right ...

    FWIW, the Dollar historically has been the world's trans-national currency -- that was especially true for the western hemisphere (which includes Latin America).

    As a nation we have gained tremedously by the dollar being used as a method of international exchange.

    For decades we been able to print green paper and receive big screen HD LCD tvs in exchange.

    That green paper has been our best, most valuable export.

    Sadly, junior's destruction of our economy and our country is being reflected in the wholesale devaluation of the american dollar.

    His legacy will be tough to recover from.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/13/2007 at 03:20 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13. gojeda's Avatar
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    #13  
    I think this is a good time to highlight Bush's destruction of the economy.

    (edit: bls.gov charts not showing up all of a sudden)

    And last, but not least, the most important economic indicator there is: GDP


    Atrocious job by Junior here. (Green is GDP)

    Oh the humanity!
    Last edited by gojeda; 10/13/2007 at 06:45 PM.
  14. gojeda's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Of course, it depends on what you mean by “stability.” If I’m the typical robber baron looking to exploit, I would find Latin America very stable. Abject poverty, docile work force, no real societal institutions providing a safety net or even a history of such, what else could a robber baron want? Seems very stable.
    Except the robber baron would probably find the confines of a Hemispheric Union, if one ever came to pass, quite uncomfortable due to the fact that there would be a bureaucracy in place, added resources, and new judicial implications that were not there before.

    What I mean by stability are things like elections (real ones, not the kind where the winning candidate gets 99% of the vote), manageable corruption, no quasi-civil wars, and no idiotic notions of a "world revolution".....

    ...just to name a few.

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