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  1.    #1  
    Please tell me this is something other than a misguided attempt at diplomatic leverage to keep the Turks from opening up a new front? Honestly, I think that it was probably genocide and that is abhorrent of course...but from the year 1915? Really?

    I'm open to solid reasons why this vote has to come now. I am all for attempting to restore moral authority but it seems to me we have a lot more to do in the present than in the past to achieve that.

    You'll recall my concerns about Nancy Pelosi's effectiveness in a previous thread and I hate to say it, but this just adds to my concerns.


    Timing of genocide resolution questioned
    Story Highlights
    Resolution labels 1915-1923 massacre of Armenians in Turkey "genocide"

    House Democrats say resolution will help restore America's moral authority

    Administration says resolution would hurt relations with Turkey, a key ally

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- With tensions rising between the United States and Turkey over a resolution that labels the World War I-era massacre of Armenians by Turkish forces "genocide," many are asking why the House is debating the resolution now.

    The House Foreign Affairs committee voted 27-21 Wednesday to approve the nonbinding resolution, which declares that the deportation of nearly 2 million Armenians from the Ottoman Empire between 1915 and 1923 -- resulting in the deaths of 1.5 million -- was "systematic" and "deliberate," amounting to "genocide."

    The Democratic leadership has not scheduled a final vote.

    Administration officials have lobbied against the resolution, saying good U.S-Turkish relations are vital to U.S. forces in Iraq. The Pentagon says 70 percent of the military's cargo heading into Iraq either flies into or over Turkey.

    But House Democrats view the resolution as part of their mandate to restore America's moral authority around the world.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday said arguments that Turkey is too vital an ally to alienate has delayed the resolution for too long. Watch Speaker Pelosi defend the timing of the debate

    "I've been in Congress for 20 years. And for 20 years, people have been saying the same thing." Pelosi said Thursday. "There's never a good time. And all of us in the Democratic leadership have supported... reiterating the Americans' acknowledgement of a genocide."

    "As long as there is genocide, there is need to speak out against it," she added.

    An one of the chief supporters of the resolution, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Tom Lantos, D-California, was unmoved by the administration's arguments that Turkey would block the use of U.S. airbases on Turkish soil.

    "The Turkish government will not act against the United States because that would be against their own interests," he told CNN. "I'm convinced of this."

    Lantos, the only member of the House who is a Holocaust survivor, says passage of the resolution would also help to bring a moral dimension back to U.S. foreign policy.

    "One of the problems we have diplomatically globally is that we have lost our moral authority which we used to have in great abundance," Lantos said. "People around the globe who are familiar with these events will appreciate the fact that the United States is speaking out against a historic injustice. This would be like sweeping slavery under the rug and saying slavery never occurred."

    But Democrats are not united behind the measure, Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton, D-Missouri, has sent a letter to Pelosi on Thursday opposing the resolution, saying the resulting backlash threatened by Turkey could disrupt "America's ability to redeploy U.S. military forces from Iraq," a top Democratic priority.

    And the top Republican in the House, Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Thursday that bringing the resolution up for a final vote would be "totally irresponsible."

    "The fact is that Turkey is a very good ally of the United States. They are critical to our security, not only her to but our troops oversees," Boehner said. "Let the historians decide what happened 90 years ago."
  2. #2  
    I agree, it is completely political in nature.
  3. gojeda's Avatar
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    #3  
    I am all for attempting to restore moral authority but it seems to me we have a lot more to do in the present than in the past to achieve that.
    The obvious response here is that many do not see any need to "restore moral authority" for the simple reason that it was not "lost" to begin with.

    Surely the fact that Pelosi, of all people, has appointed herself the moral bulwark of the nation will lead to much laughter across the land.

    What is next from the Democratic party? Barney Frank to chair a committee task force on sex crimes? LOL!
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    The obvious response here is that many do not see any need to "restore moral authority" for the simple reason that it was not "lost" to begin with.

    Surely the fact that Pelosi, of all people, has appointed herself the moral bulwark of the nation will lead to much laughter across the land.

    What is next from the Democratic party? Barney Frank to chair a committee task force on sex crimes? LOL!
    Another thoughtful reply. Go figure.
  5. #5  
    An one of the chief supporters of the resolution, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Tom Lantos, D-California, was unmoved by the administration's arguments that Turkey would block the use of U.S. airbases on Turkish soil.

    "The Turkish government will not act against the United States because that would be against their own interests," he told CNN. "I'm convinced of this."

    Lantos, the only member of the House who is a Holocaust survivor, says passage of the resolution would also help to bring a moral dimension back to U.S. foreign policy.

    "One of the problems we have diplomatically globally is that we have lost our moral authority which we used to have in great abundance," Lantos said. "People around the globe who are familiar with these events will appreciate the fact that the United States is speaking out against a historic injustice. This would be like sweeping slavery under the rug and saying slavery never occurred."
    Coming to terms with one's past, be it a nation or an individual, is critically necessary to moving forward. Lantos has it right. There is no attempt to cross swords with Turkey, and this measure will, once finalized, be finessed so as to have Turkey embrace the resolution and resolve itself to its own higher ideals.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ...

    You'll recall my concerns about Nancy Pelosi's effectiveness in a previous thread and I hate to say it, but this just adds to my concerns.
    I was never enthusiastic about her being elected speaker -- what's really sad is that I can't think of who might have been better. (Jim Moran ?? maybe...)

    I hated gingrich and his crew of yesmen accolytes -- as painful as it is though to admit, he was an effective opposition House leader.

    He also eventually became as well, the face of repugnican hypocrisy and scandal (starring in countless democratic ads) -- finally having to resign.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Coming to terms with one's past, be it a nation or an individual, is critically necessary to moving forward. Lantos has it right. There is no attempt to cross swords with Turkey, and this measure will, once finalized, be finessed so as to have Turkey embrace the resolution and resolve itself to its own higher ideals.
    I fear you're too optimistic ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Coming to terms with one's past, be it a nation or an individual, is critically necessary to moving forward. Lantos has it right. There is no attempt to cross swords with Turkey, and this measure will, once finalized, be finessed so as to have Turkey embrace the resolution and resolve itself to its own higher ideals.
    OK. But does it have to come now? Do you really think that this helps restore our moral authority?

    You know in business, especially startups, you need to focus. A lot. I look at this as losing focus and another example as to why the Dems are seen as being all over the map.
  9. gojeda's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Another thoughtful reply. Go figure.
    Though not nearly as thoughtful as....

    "I am all for attempting to restore moral authority but it seems to me we have a lot more to do in the present than in the past to achieve that."

    I bow to your unparalleled "thoughtfulness".
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I fear you're too optimistic ...
    Could be. But, had Hunt Oil not had such a windfall gift from Bush-CO with the Kurds, taking the morally correct stance would be a touch easier, given the timing. However, moral courage takes more spinal strength than does taking the short-term pragmatic way out. Being the only superpower has its moral crosses to bare.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Though not nearly as thoughtful as....

    "I am all for attempting to restore moral authority but it seems to me we have a lot more to do in the present than in the past to achieve that."

    I bow to your unparalleled "thoughtfulness".
    I do want to point out once again that it is YOU starting $hit and harrassing me and posting your trolling bull$#t in a thread I started.

    Is this your idea of honorable discourse? Parachuting into a thread and adding your right-wing talking points and adding absolutely no substance to a discussion? What a petty little self-important man you are neo.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Could be. But, had Hunt Oil not had such a windfall gift from Bush-CO with the Kurds, taking the morally correct stance would be a touch easier, given the timing. However, moral courage takes more spinal strength than does taking the short-term pragmatic way out. Being the only superpower has its moral crosses to bare.
    Maybe. But the timing is what I disagree with the most and the lack of focus. Then again, if the Turks suddenly back down on opening another front then I guess we'll know there was more to the story and this was in fact a leverage point. I'm just not quite sure our congress and Bush appointed officials are quite that in sync though on foreign policy.
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Is this your idea of honorable discourse? Parachuting into a thread and adding your right-wing talking points and adding absolutely no substance to a discussion? What a petty little self-important man you are neo.
    I am sorry for your recalcitrant demeanor when someone questions your premise. Tell me, do you always whine when someone questions you?

    But, more importantly, how does on "parachute" into a thread? Is that, like, "stealing an election"?
  14. #14  
    Personally, I think it's a bunch of hooey that turkish genocide continues for Thanksgiving.

    But, there isn't a cotton pickin thing you can do about it. Turkeys(ies) will continue to be slaughtered for the Thanksgiving holiday.

    >pass the dark meat, please<

  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I am sorry for your recalcitrant demeanor when someone questions your premise. Tell me, do you always whine when someone questions you?

    But, more importantly, how does on "parachute" into a thread? Is that, like, "stealing an election"?
    ...and less and less and less class.

    Seriously, I'm having trouble keeping up with all of your trolling.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Maybe. But the timing is what I disagree with the most and the lack of focus. Then again, if the Turks suddenly back down on opening another front then I guess we'll know there was more to the story and this was in fact a leverage point.
    Regarding lack of focus, I'm not sure if you're referring to not having a 'Contract with America'-type of marketing campaign or something less coordinated, but in either sense, I agree with you. Congressional leadership should be pulling out the stops to focus their energies on a limited number of top-tier priorities, such as ending the Iraq War cash-cow and place the burden of governing and infrastructure redevelopment solely into their hands.

    As far as the timing is concerned, I have no idea why *now*, but it is what it is. As congressional leadership has said, we have alot of fence-mending to do and having the sole worldwide leadership position we have implores our government to take the lead with dignity. We have to start somewhere.

    I'm just not quite sure our congress and Bush appointed officials are quite that in sync though on foreign policy.
    Given Bush-CO's talent for cherry-picking easy moral battles to fight, you're likely exactly correct.
  17. gojeda's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ...and less and less and less class.

    Seriously, I'm having trouble keeping up with all of your trolling.
    Calling the "race card", the "troll card", and the "stupid card" is a poor substitute for an erudite response.

    Keep up the good work Modboy.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Calling the "race card", the "troll card", and the "stupid card" is a poor substitute for an erudite response.

    Keep up the good work Modboy.
    ...and less and less and less and less and less and less and less class.
  19. gojeda's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ...and less and less and less and less and less and less and less class.
    Which, from you, would be a high compliment indeed.

    Thanks!
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Which, from you, would be a high compliment indeed.

    Thanks!
    Well somebody has to pull you up from your $hitkickers and help you to see you for what you really are. So you're quite welcome young neo.
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