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  1.    #1  
    many of us recently participated in an online Q&A that attempted to decipher our places on the political spectrum.

    Some thought it revealed alot about our various perspectives.

    I think that learning about who we'd support for President from the current field would possibly tell us even more.

    my questions:

    1. of the current candidates, who would you vote for in a primary if the election were today ?? (briefly why)

    2. Is there a candidate that you wish were running ?? (why ??)


    1. I would vote for Hillary. Though I was initially skeptical that a woman would be tough enough for the sht storm that the repugnicans will unleash, her performance so far in the debates has reassured me that she's smart and resilient enough to know how to handle herself -- to not allow herself to be Swiftboated like John Kerry.

    Also, I ironically agree with repugnicans that in her heart of hearts, she's really much more liberal than she currently presents herself. I think (and hope) that she will, whenever possible, push for progressive outcomes.

    I hope she will appoint liberal judges, bring back respect for the Bill of Rights, and aggressively look after our environment. I anticipate that she will forcefully address the global climate crisis and our self destructive energy policies that only enrich oil companies and OPEC.

    I know she won't begin another war with Iran, and I hope that she will rapidly pull us out of Iraq (though my skepticism is growing on that front.

    I expect that she will embrace scientific advancement in fields like stem cell research, keep the police out of our bedrooms, and protect the rights of women to be sovereign over their own bodies.

    Though I want a single payer health care system like Canada has, and I'm not enthusiastic about the health care plan she recently revealed, she does seem to sincerely want to reform that system. (I wish she'd try to go much much further). (BTW, and this is not really germane, but I saw and talked to her briefly tonight at a private party -- the party was not for her -- I was there as a videographer).

    2. Had I my druthers, Al Gore would have run.

    I have in other threads talked about how much I respect and admire him. He is without peer in the political world as someone who has a comprehensive understanding of politics, science, the arts, technology, and the environment -- and he has a deep passionate respect for justice and human rights. More than any other candidate (more even than Bill Clinton) he could have lead america to a resurgent renaissance.

    Though I had hoped he'd announce, I’ve accepted with sadness, that he will not.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/10/2007 at 12:28 PM.
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  2. gojeda's Avatar
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    #2  
    The sad reality is that there is not one exceptional candidate from either side.

    Obama is unelectable for a myriad of reasons, but above all else, he simply does not have the pedigree.

    Hillary does have a pedigree, but in a bad way. She is polarizing and has a negative energy that puts people off. And, last but not least, the notion of 8 more years of Billary in the White House repulses me.

    The other Democratic candidates are not really worth mentioning.

    On the Republican side.....

    Giuliani did great things for NYC in the wake of the disastrous Dinkins regime. However, Giuliani lacks a certain seriousness and well-roundedness that is required for President.

    Romney panders a bit too much for my taste.

    Then there is McCain in the moderate wing. He has the background and the political career necessary for President, but there are issues regarding his health. He "pees" outside the pot a little too frequently for my tastes, and certain crucial miscues in his campaign recently makes me question his ability to run a White House adminstration.

    The rest of the Republican field is a joke with the exception of Fred Thompson. I want to get a better feel of this particular candidate though and I have concerns about his health.

    So, as of yet, I have not decided who I would vote for.

    As for who I'd like to see, the two names that come to mind are Jeb Bush and Newt Gingrich. Jeb for his leadership in running the red-headed stepchild that is Florida, and Newt for his political acumen.

    Of those, Newt has professed an interest - though I doubt he would run. A shame as he is one of the more cerebral politicians out there.

    Who I wish would run? Hmm,
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    The sad reality is that there is not one exceptional candidate from either side.

    Obama is unelectable for a myriad of reasons, but above all else, he simply does not have the pedigree....


    ...The rest of the Republican field is a joke with the exception of Fred Thompson. I want to get a better feel of this particular candidate though and I have concerns about his health.

    ...
    so if Obama had had a "pedigree", you would have voted for him (if the election were today ??)

    But since he doesn't, you'd vote for Thompson ??


    (just came upon this Oliphant)

    Last edited by BARYE; 10/10/2007 at 09:46 AM.
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  4. #4  
    Hey Barye!! While I driving around for work yesterday, and listening to CNN's Situation Room in the car while they did a run down of the candidates from each side, I thought of posting this very EXACT thread! You know what they say...Great minds think alike....and I am glad then at least some of me has rubbed off on you over the years of our debates (even though your answer above does show it is minimal)!

    But ultimately the reason why I didn't post it last night is that I realized that I couldn't answer my own question if I posted "Who would you vote for tomorrow morning if the election were tomorrow?"

    I peronsally vote for the Man (uhm...err...person ) and certainly not by party lines as I have no loyality to any party.

    DEMS
    I had one or two in the last two primaries on the Dem side I very well might have voted for last election if they would have made it to the general election. I have watched most of the Dem debates and I have yet to be able to allign myself with any of them yet this time around. I can say for certain that I am not for Hillary. I simply disagree with too many of her statements.

    REP
    I am still watching this one very closely as well. Again I have watched all the debates so far. My opinion may certainly change as time goes on and more exposure of the candidates are continaully made available, but if I had to vote tomorrow morning...It would, at the moment, probably be Romney. I have heard several interviews with him from both friendlies and non-friendlies, I have liked many of his thoughts he has presented them, but also have to weigh that with his past actions.



    ..............well I guess I could have answered my own post after all.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Hey Barye!! While I driving around for work yesterday, and listening to CNN's Situation Room in the car while they did a run down of the candidates from each side, I thought of posting this very EXACT thread! You know what they say...Great minds think alike....and I am glad then at least some of me has rubbed off on you over the years of our debates (even though your answer above does show it is minimal)!

    But ultimately the reason why I didn't post it last night is that I realized that I couldn't answer my own question if I posted "Who would you vote for tomorrow morning if the election were tomorrow?"

    I peronsally vote for the Man (uhm...err...person ) and certainly not by party lines as I have no loyality to any party.

    DEMS
    I had one or two in the last two primaries on the Dem side I very well might have voted for last election if they would have made it to the general election. I have watched most of the Dem debates and I have yet to be able to allign myself with any of them yet this time around. I can say for certain that I am not for Hillary. I simply disagree with too many of her statements.

    REP
    I am still watching this one very closely as well. Again I have watched all the debates so far. My opinion may certainly change as time goes on and more exposure of the candidates are continaully made available, but if I had to vote tomorrow morning...It would, at the moment, probably be Romney. I have heard several interviews with him from both friendlies and non-friendlies, I have liked many of his thoughts he has presented them, but also have to weigh that with his past actions.



    ..............well I guess I could have answered my own post after all.
    Hey Hobbes !!

    though you know I'm never going to like almost any republican (except maybe Ron Paul) Romney and Thompson seem to me like such empty suits.

    Like there is no there there beyond ambition --- for another star next to their name.

    Neither seems to be animated by any specific agenda.

    Romney in particular seems like silly putty -- he molds himself to fit, depending on where he happens to be a candidate.

    Running in Massachusetts ?? I favor choice, I favor gay civil unions, I want health care for all Mass. citizens.

    Running in the Rep. primary ?? abortion is murder, no socialized medicine...

    The only thing slightly positive I can say about him is that Jim Cramer (who I respect), likes him (which makes me doubt Jim Cramer).

    Thompson tastes to me like yesterdays left over grits.

    Like he's running on the pretense of yesterday's ersatz folksiness.

    Richard Nizon may have been nearly unadulterated mendacity, but I loved hearing what he thought about Thompson: dumb as hell, but a useful patsy.
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  6. #6  
    If i had a gun to my head, I'd probably vote for Romney. Thompsons is not nearly the candidate I thought he was gonna be. I don't trust Giuliani's character. I kinda like Huckabee, but then he's said some things I don't like.
    I guess I'm not happy about any of the cadidates.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23 View Post
    If i had a gun to my head, I'd probably vote for Romney. Thompsons is not nearly the candidate I thought he was gonna be. I don't trust Giuliani's character. I kinda like Huckabee, but then he's said some things I don't like.
    I guess I'm not happy about any of the cadidates.
    I actually like Romney the best for the GOP so far - but he is pandering as much as Hillary and that bothers me. I liked him better when he was the moderate that got elected in a liberal state. So I have concerns about his shifting opinions since they seem so disingenious. If they were well founded changes in position I could at least respect that....I like it when politicians actually think for themselves.

    I am not happy with anyone from the Dems. I am not completely turned off by Obama yet though. He seems to be playing the role as an "outsider" - at least when compared to Hillary - and his inexperience can be no worse than previous President's that have held the office. But I am not sold on him yet either.

    I'd really like someone like Bloomberg to run as an independent with someone like Hagel on the ticket.....but I can only dream.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I actually like Romney the best for the GOP so far - but he is pandering as much as Hillary and that bothers me. ...
    interesting -- and surprising moderateinny.

    What don't you like about Hillary -- would you vote for Romney over her ???
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  9. #9  
    I recognize the fact that just because a candidate may come down one way on a particular issue, doesn’t mean that’s how that particular issue will play out, so I’m willing to compromise.

    As for Republicans, although I don’t agree with him on healthcare, I like Ron Paul. He seems to exemplify the type of personal integrity I would like to see in a president. If he’s still standing at the end (doubtful), I will have to give him serious consideration. As far the Democrats, I find Hillary to be the least offensive. What I like about her is the fact that she will give as good as she gets. She’s not the type to sit back and allow the right to paint her a certain way without answering the charge. People talk about her demeanor and how she rubs them the wrong way, but I think that’s just cover for the fact that we have a woman running for president. Incidently, I don't want my president to be some "nice" lady. There will be times when she'll have to kick a$$ and take names. However, I don’t agree with all her positions. I haven’t studied her healthcare plan closely yet, but my perception in listening to her talk is that it seemed rather hodgepodge. Personally, I would prefer universal coverage. When you think about our covenant and why governments are constituted in the first place, what could be more fundamental to your general welfare than your health?

    I really do wish people would get past racial politics, if for no other reason than to keep themselves from being used. I think it was Thurgood Marshall that once said when he was asked about his views on Clarence Thomas “A black snake will bite you just as fast as a white snake”. Think about it.

    I don’t think Obama’s “pedigree” has as much to do with his electability as you would think (or wish). He certainly isn’t raising all those millions strictly in the black community. In fact Hillary enjoys a comfortable lead among blacks. To me, it has more to do with the fact that most people had not even heard of Obama until recently. The fact that he's doing so well, should scare the hell out the business as usual crowd because it’s an indication of just how fed up people are with politics as usual.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    interesting -- and surprising moderateinny.

    What don't you like about Hillary -- would you vote for Romney over her ???
    Really that surprising? I like the combination as I'd get fiscal conservatives yet much more balance with things like abortion since one is pro and one is anti....and both seem moderate or rather open to dialogue rather than party-line wedge backers. I like Hagel even though he leans further right on social issues than I'd like. But he is a vet - an honest vet - that would compliment the midget (Bloomberg) very nicely.

    Hillary vs. Romney? I honestly don't know. My reasons for not liking Hillary are more to do with the fact that I don't think she can win - fairly or unfairly, she is too divisive. Yes, she panders. So do many others. I just don't think she can win though so I am hoping the Dems don't pick her. If she gets the nod I'd have to see just how far Romney tilts right before making a decision. I certainly don't have the "end of the world" panic that some have about Hillary. She'd do a good job in many ways....if she can get anything done. And therein lies the crux with Hillary....at least for me.
  11. #11  
    Hillary is unelectable. She will win the nomination, but Rudy will get elected.

    I don't care for any of them, but it's obvious how it will play out.



    Hillary's cackle is next years version of the Howard Dean scream.

    Maybe Obama or Thompson may shake it up.

    And of course, if Gore stepped in, he would get the nomination.

    Republicrat or Demolicans, they're all the same.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    I recognize the fact that just because a candidate may come down one way on a particular issue, doesn’t mean that’s how that particular issue will play out, so I’m willing to compromise.

    As for Republicans, although I don’t agree with him on healthcare, I like Ron Paul. He seems to exemplify the type of personal integrity I would like to see in a president. If he’s still standing at the end (doubtful), I will have to give him serious consideration. As far the Democrats, I find Hillary to be the least offensive. What I like about her is the fact that she will give as good as she gets. She’s not the type to sit back and allow the right to paint her a certain way without answering the charge. People talk about her demeanor and how she rubs them the wrong way, but I think that’s just cover for the fact that we have a woman running for president. Incidently, I don't want my president to be some "nice" lady. There will be times when she'll have to kick a$$ and take names. However, I don’t agree with all her positions. I haven’t studied her healthcare plan closely yet, but my perception in listening to her talk is that it seemed rather hodgepodge. Personally, I would prefer universal coverage. When you think about our covenant and why governments are constituted in the first place, what could be more fundamental to your general welfare than your health?

    I really do wish people would get past racial politics, if for no other reason than to keep themselves from being used. I think it was Thurgood Marshall that once said when he was asked about his views on Clarence Thomas “A black snake will bite you just as fast as a white snake”. Think about it.

    I don’t think Obama’s “pedigree” has as much to do with his electability as you would think (or wish). He certainly isn’t raising all those millions strictly in the black community. In fact Hillary enjoys a comfortable lead among blacks. To me, it has more to do with the fact that most people had not even heard of Obama until recently. The fact that he's doing so well, should scare the hell out the business as usual crowd because it’s an indication of just how fed up people are with politics as usual.
    Most of what you wrote I agree with.

    I wonder if gojeda was aware of the implications of the word "pedigree" in reference to Obama -- even unconsciously.

    For a lot of reasons, which I'm sure Iago, you know -- its use in connection with Obama could be understood in a provocative way.

    Obama's biggest liability is what for me is his unelectability.

    I have no confidence that he could take the beating that repugnicans are masters at dispensing. Nor do I think he has the breath and depth of experience to be the best head of a complicated nation.

    I sometimes wish that Hillary would have the courage to say what Obama says. When I sober up though, I recognize that Hillary is playing for victory in November -- not just to make lefties happy.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/11/2007 at 07:44 AM.
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Most of what you wrote I agree with.

    I wonder if gojeda was aware of the implications of the word "pedigree" in reference to Obama -- even unconsciously.

    For a lot of reasons, which I'm sure Iago, you know -- its use in connection with Obama could be understood in a provacative way.

    Obama's biggest liability is what for me is his unelectability.

    I have no confidence that he could take the beating that repugnicans are masters at dispensing. Nor do I think he has the breath and depth of experience to be the best head of a complicated nation.

    I sometimes wish that Hillary would have the courage to say what Obama says. When I sober up though, I recognize that Hillary is playing for victory in November -- not just to make lefties happy.
    I agree, with your reasoning on Obama. I don’t think he could get elected either. His problem is that he tries to be “above it all”. The “politics of hope” may win you some admirers, but it won’t get you elected. Like it or not, negativity, mudslinging, etc., is part of American style politics, and always has been. Your opponent will pull you down into the mud whether you want to get dirty or not, so you may as well roll up your sleeves. But the “art” is in being able to take the high road and at the same time, still slip the $hit out of your opponent. Hillary can do that.

    As to your second question.....after some reflection......not so much who but what.....that is candidates who have a background in and know something about the purpose of government. Maybe we should make a degree in government or political science a requirement.
    Last edited by Iago; 10/10/2007 at 11:09 PM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  14. #14  
    I still remember how after his concession speech Kerry suddenly transformed from a wormtongue bloviating craven into an honest decent, classy guy. So I have given up trying to get an straight answer about presidential candidates around here.
  15. #15  
    Hillary.

    She'll be like the good old days of Bill Clinton .. without the BJ's.

    I yearn for the 90's, balanced budgets and all.
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I still remember how after his concession speech Kerry suddenly transformed from a wormtongue bloviating craven into an honest decent, classy guy. So I have given up trying to get an straight answer about presidential candidates around here.
    Couldn't agree more! As I'm sure you've noticed just as I have, most responding posts are more to do with why X-candidate is wrong for the job, even where BARYE clearly presented 2 positive-focused questions.
  17. #17  


    1) Edwards for his experience, passion, leadership and southern connection. John needs to pick up the fund raising pace if he wants to stay in the hunt.

    2) Gore for the reasons previously posted. He is one of the most dynamic and visionary leaders in the modern era.
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  18. gojeda's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    so if Obama had had a "pedigree", you would have voted for him (if the election were today ??)
    I think I distinctly said that Obama was unelectable..and yes, his pedigree is a liability.

    It seems that the word pedigree caught your attention. Why? Why is it "controversial" when the word is used in regards to Obama, but not controversial when used when talking about, say, a John Edwards?

    But since he doesn't, you'd vote for Thompson ??
    Thompson has been the quietest as he is "the new kid on the block" in coming to the race for the party's nomination. I think I said I want to "feel him out".
    Last edited by gojeda; 10/10/2007 at 11:29 PM.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I think I distinctly said that Obama was unelectable..and yes, his pedigree is a liability.

    It seems that the word pedigree caught your attention. Why? Why is it "controversial" when the word is used in regards to Obama, but not controversial when used when talking about, say, a John Edwards?...

    though we may almost always disagree, I know that you understand subtext and inference. I recognize that you're an educated guy. I assume therefore that you know about and understand Obama's complex ethnicity.

    Using the word "pedigree" against that backdrop, is at best, insensitive.
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  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    Hillary.

    She'll be like the good old days of Bill Clinton .. without the BJ's.

    ...
    maybe that was what got him into trouble -- that she was, as you say: "without the BJ's"...

    (just a thought)
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