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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    What independent open-review process has been authorized? When those involved are so consumed with guilt that the only available method for correction is leaking to the media, we must be winning over the hearts and minds of our enemies in droves, correct? Attempts to explain away the realities of this closed system of 'justice' are cheerfully ignored.

    (Images snipped)

    My apologies, in advance, if these images seem offensive to any, but they represent the reality from which some make smug jokes.
    If you want to apologize in advance, you do it before the pictures, not after.

    This people can click at thier own peril. Decide what you would to the above terrorists if it could have saved his life.

    http://inhonor.net/videos/uped/fl_video.php?f_num=6
  2. #42  
    "Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me." - Matthew 25:40

    "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." - James 4:17
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    If you want to apologize in advance, you do it before the pictures, not after.
    These military photos?



    My bad.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    "Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me." - Matthew 25:40

    "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." - James 4:17
    Quoting the bible...the last recourse when reasoning fails.

    Some recommended viewing:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0455507/
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    These military photos?

    (snip)

    My bad.
    Yes, those photos. Maybe you could post the Guardian articles as well. I'm sure the backstory is equally evocative.
  6. #46  
    Guess the US military members who were serving who leaked the story could only find someone from outside the US to tell it. Wierd, huh?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Guess the US military members who were serving who leaked the story could only find someone from outside the US to tell it. Wierd, huh?
    If that helps you sleep better at night...
  8. gojeda's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    What independent open-review process has been authorized?
    Is an "open-review" process required?

    The Red Cross is the only organization who has access to the prisoners, and they are bound to confidentiality and can only address their concerns to US officials.

    ...for obvious reasons.

    When those involved are so consumed with guilt that the only available method for correction is leaking to the media, we must be winning over the hearts and minds of our enemies in droves, correct?
    Ostensibly hundreds, if not thousands, are involved in interrogating these prisoner combatants in the 4 corners of the globe. How many have come forward?

    Out of the thousands held and thousands released by US operatives around the world, how many have come forward?

    My apologies, in advance, if these images seem offensive to any, but they represent the reality from which some make smug jokes.
    I seems some of us have a problem discerning an instances of prisoner abuse (which, to my knowledge, has been properly dealt with according to military justice) with that of systematic abuse as dictated by policy.

    But I don't know what is worse, smug jokes.....or provocative pictures used as a prop in lieu of a convincing arguement?
    Last edited by gojeda; 10/11/2007 at 11:32 PM.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Attempts to explain away the realities of this closed system of 'justice' are cheerfully ignored.
    So predictable.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I seems some of us have a problem discerning an instances of prisoner abuse
    I'm sorry but I really don't understand your horrifically poor sentence. Have you studied English 101? Did they teach you to say things like, "I seems" and to carelessly misspell words like "any"?

    Are you not aware that this forum requires each of your post to be written as well as a thesis would need to be by a graduate student?

    Or is it possible that this is a GD'd internet forum and most people post in between doing other things in their life and may not pay attention to such details from time to time? Is it possible it was very late were you were and/or you do in fact have a life?

    (note to neo: this is a hint that you need to lighten up on the english lessons and heavy use of thesaurus.com - we're not impressed. Especially when you seem more than human yourself as evidenced above in matters of "internet forum" English 101)

    (which, to my knowledge, has been properly dealt with according to military justice) with that of systematic abuse as dictated by policy.
    I don't trust "your knowledge". And I don't necessarily think anyone is claiming that the use of torture - not interrogations (big difference between torture and interrogations) - are systematic. At least I am not. I think the Bushies have created an environment for some factions of the military and CIA to conduct torture, or at least, export torture. They've certainly spent a fair amount of time looking for wiggle room and determining how far they can push things. As far as the military though, I do believe most troops in the field know that torture is not acceptable. But young men can do pretty bad things in the fog of war so there are likely to be isolated incidents down in the trenches.

    But I don't know what is worse, smug jokes.....or provocative pictures used as a prop in lieu of a convincing arguement?
    I'll take the pictures any day over your smugness. Frankly it makes me more sick than these pictures do.
  11. #51  
    What's sadly humorous is that one has to only follow the entirety of the 'discourse' lecture by gojeda (and his cling-on pal mikec) to see that gojeda uses an odd communication 'technique'(?) of agree-to-disagree. I agree with Moderateinny that it's fairly sad that so much time and effort has been spent on these twists of position of 'I agree->You're wrong' twists and it really should be stopped being employed by gojeda on all subjects. Last time I'm addressing this.
  12. gojeda's Avatar
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    #52  
    <snipped self-aborbed hissy fit lecture on linguistics>

    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I don't trust "your knowledge".
    You don't have to trust it, however it does not remove the fact that there is an infrastructure in place, called military justice, in place for these contingencies.

    Now, if you feel that military justice is inadequate to address these concerns, have at it, but you should probably go through the trouble of making an intelligent case for yourself instead of regurgitating left-wing talking points.

    And I don't necessarily think anyone is claiming that the use of torture - not interrogations (big difference between torture and interrogations) - are systematic.
    Apparently you do not read left-wing propaganda generated both on the Internet and in print.

    At least I am not. I think the Bushies have created an environment for some factions of the military and CIA to conduct torture, or at least, export torture. They've certainly spent a fair amount of time looking for wiggle room and determining how far they can push things.
    Any administration looks for "wiggle room" on a wide variety of issues. Nothing new here.
  13. gojeda's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    (and his cling-on pal mikec)
    As opposed to the little cabal made up of Shortie and Modboy?

    to see that gojeda uses an odd communication 'technique'(?) of agree-to-disagree. I agree with Moderateinny that it's fairly sad that so much time and effort has been spent on these twists of position of 'I agree->You're wrong' twists and it really should be stopped being employed by gojeda on all subjects. Last time I'm addressing this.
    I find it more distressing that there are still people in this country who decide to play the race card in the vain attempt to address deficiencies in their position while demonizing those with contrary views.

    To each his own I suppose....
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Now, if you feel that military justice is inadequate to address these concerns, have at it, but you should probably go through the trouble of making an intelligent case for yourself instead of regurgitating left-wing talking points.
    Like?

    Apparently you do not read left-wing propaganda generated both on the Internet and in print.
    Wait...do I read them or don't I? And if I don't, where do I get these so-called talking points?

    Any administration looks for "wiggle room" on a wide variety of issues. Nothing new here.
    The issue here is the use of torture as a means of interrogating an enemy combatant. But thanks for "wiggling" out of that one with yet another deflection.
  15. gojeda's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Wait...do I read them or don't I? And if I don't, where do I get these so-called talking points?
    TV? Your friends? Your pet rock?

    The issue here is the use of torture as a means of interrogating an enemy combatant. But thanks for "wiggling" out of that one with yet another deflection.
    I think we have fully established that torture is not to be used by this country. The question was, is, and will be, what constitutes torture. I think I made this point about, oh, post #2.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I think we have fully established that torture is not to be used by this country. The question was, is, and will be, what constitutes torture. I think I made this point about, oh, post #2.
    Yes. And I attempted to answer what I thought torture is. And then you ONCE AGAIN had to be a wise-a$$ and mock my response rather than politely disagree.
  17. gojeda's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Yes. And I attempted to answer what I thought torture is. And then you ONCE AGAIN had to be a wise-a$$ and mock my response rather than politely disagree.
    Rather hard to 'mock up' your response when you have yet to intelligently provide one.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Rather hard to 'mock up' your response when you have yet to intelligently provide one.
    Ba dum dum. You're wit is beyond your years young neo. Don't you have an exam or something coming up that you should be studying for?

    Or wait...here's an idea: why don't you post a definition of torture so that you can "learn me real good". OK?
  19. gojeda's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Or wait...here's an idea: why don't you post a definition of torture so that you can "learn me real good". OK?
    Sorry, I am not in the business of "ejumacating" those who are obviously beyond intellectual reproach.

    As for the definition of torture, do you not have a dictionary? Why would I define a word, in our political context, when not even things like the Geneva Conventions are vague about it?

    I think I have explained what my take is on torture. If it involves inflicting physical pain, it is torture. Most all other techniques of interrogation are debateable.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Sorry, I am not in the business of "ejumacating" those who are obviously beyond intellectual reproach.
    This from a young man who cannot even keep track of his own hate filled forum rants. To review young neo, in post #2 you asked "So, the question becomes, what is torture?" Now those of us with "lesser intelligence" may have taken that to mean you were soliciting opinions or other definitions for torture. Especially since you went on to say, "...I would say you will get 6 or 7 different answers from any group of 10 people."

    By post #4 you had declared your intepretation of what torture is, but also went on to surmise that us little-minded folks of less intelligence may want to muse, "...some specific examples...then we can comment on them."

    Now being the "dummy" that I am I thought perhaps posting a list of things that some have accused the Bushies of using as torture to facilitate a discussion per your request was a good starting point. We were fine as you agreed or disageed as to which were torture in your opinion. But alas, you could not help yourself when you decided to mock my obvious inferior intellect rather than leaving your opinion on each bullet point stand and continuing to conduct yourself in a mature manner that you like to pretend you are capable of.

    Of course it must have been confusing following along when I basically agreed with the article posted by Barye regarding WWII interrogators since it was such a stretch given I posted it merely 4 posts after his.

    Silly silly old man that I am. Perhaps its senility?
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