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  1. tirk's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    In Tirk's defense, I think he meant violent crimes - particularily gun violence to which the US ranks considerably higher.
    Thank you, indeed I did. Looking at this for example shows you have a homicide rate more than double that of the UK. As to comparing "overall" crime rates, that is screwed by the two countries having very different laws (this flag precedence one for example).

    I feel much safer on the streets of Britain than I do when I visit the US, and this event reinforces that feeling.

    In the UK if a vigilante had threatened an immigrant or visitor with a knife (I really can't see any other interpretation of his rant) over what is, after all, a piece of cloth there would be an absolute outcry. Is the guy in the video in custody, or still walking free?
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  2. #22  
    I have to disagree about saftey. I've never wanted to carry a gun except in European cities.

    Why? Lots of "petty" street crime, but worse, the cops are a joke. If you report the crime, they treat you like a criminal and don't want to really help. It was unnerving how little they wanted to help (and we were in the police station!). We had to beg for a phone to call and cancel credit cards, etc.

    And that wasn't the only time, just the most surprising. It made me realize that you could only rely on yourself. And I wish I had a piece for self-defense.

    Sure the US has bad area, but a.) they are usually not in the "main path" of people, and really bad at night.

    Give me the US any day over Europe...at least the cops here try to help and don't treat you with disdain when you ask for assistance.
  3. #23  
    I have shared this before a long time ago, but.....While in my college age years, I had my apartment (or flat) broken into twice. Once in the UK and once in the US.

    When it happened in the US, I called the police. They came over immediately. The police did take fingerprints in the obvious areas the criminal had been. They filed followed up on the case and caught the guy....though all of my stuff had already been sold and snorted away.

    When it happened in the UK, we apparently just missed him as we could still smell that construction dust smell heavy in the air when he busted the door down taking the door frame and carpet with it. We also knew exactly who it was and where he was staying that night. The police station was only 1 1/2 blocks from our flat so we went down there to report it person. They didn't want to do anything. They said come back in the morning if we wanted a report filed. We told them we knew who did it and where he was for that night ONLY. They said to us "Shift change is in about 60 minutes, no one is going want to do this because it will mean they will not get off on time". He only took our names and phone number with the fewest details possible and told us to leave. My flatmate's dad apparently had high personal contacts in law enforcement in the UK, because after a few days (which nothing was ever done except for the sketchy detailed filing of the case) the Constable (or whatever their title for Commissioner is) called us personally and said "We are not suppose to say we are at fault, but we were. And we are not supposed to apologize, but I am. I am sorry and ashamed at the actions of the individuals who did not act on your case with a solid lead simply because of an upcoming shift change".

    I lived in the UK for several years. And I agree with Mike & Tirk in the fact that I could see the numbers being true, with nonhomicide crimes being higher in the UK and violent crimes being higher in the US. With the violent crimes in the US, it would also be interesting to see a detailed map of where these crimes took place. I would strongly suspect that it would show a VAST majority in the major cities, and then show a VAST majority of those in defined sections of those cities.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 10/07/2007 at 03:17 PM.
  4. gojeda's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Thank you, indeed I did. Looking at this for example shows you have a homicide rate more than double that of the UK. As to comparing "overall" crime rates, that is screwed by the two countries having very different laws (this flag precedence one for example).
    Ahh yes, the tried and true "countries having very different laws" excuse.

    Unfortunately, the excuse doesn't fly for the simple reason that the UK has one of the highest acquittal rates in world, which means that their crime rates are underreported.

    I feel much safer on the streets of Britain than I do when I visit the US, and this event reinforces that feeling.
    There were parts of London I would not be caught in dead after the sun goes down. The same can be said for New York. So I am not sure what you are getting at here.

    In the UK if a vigilante had threatened an immigrant or visitor with a knife (I really can't see any other interpretation of his rant)
    I'm sorry, can you tell us at what point the gentleman threatened anyone with a knife?

    over what is, after all, a piece of cloth there would be an absolute outcry. Is the guy in the video in custody, or still walking free?
    Piece of cloth, or otherwise, it was still illegal. I criticize the gentleman for not involving the police, who is specifically charged with enforcing the law.

    But Tirk, are you sure you want to go down the road of which country has dumber laws....hmm?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    But Tirk, are you sure you want to go down the road of which country has dumber laws....hmm?
    I love dumb laws. Here are two great websites:

    1. http://www.dumblaws.com
    2. http://www.blingo.com/search?q=stupid+laws


    Here are some examples:

    UK:

    • No cows may be driven down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.Full TextAll land must be left to the eldest son.
    • Divorces are outlawed.Full Text
    • Since 1313, MPs are not allowed to don armor in Parliament.Full Text
    • Those wishing to purchase a television must also buy a license.Explanation
    • With the exception of carrots, most goods may not be sold on Sunday.
    • All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy.Explanation
    • London Hackney Carriages (taxis/cabs) must carry a bale of hay and a sack of oats.Explanation
    • It is illegal to be drunk on Licensed Premises (in a pub or bar).
    • It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.Explanation
    • Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI).
    • Chelsea Pensioners may not be impersonated.Explanation
    • A bed may not be hung out of a window.
    • It is illegal for a lady to eat chocolates on a public conveyance.
    • Any boy under the age of 10 may not see a naked manequin.

    US

    • In Denver it is unlawful to lend your vacuum cleaner to your next-door neighbor
    • In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after sunset.
    • Hunting camels is prohibited in Arizona
    • In Arizona Dominoes may not be played on Sunday.Full Text
    • It is illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church.
    • Idaho: Illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds.
    • Idaho: You may not fish on a camel's back.
    • WA: X-rays may not be used to fit shoes.
    • WA: A law to reduce crime states: "It is mandatory for a motorist with criminal intentions to stop at the city limits and telephone the chief of police as he is entering the town.
    • It is illegal to paint polka dots on the American flag.
    • WA: When two trains come to a crossing, neither shall go until the other has passed.
  6. tirk's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I'm sorry, can you tell us at what point the gentleman threatened anyone with a knife?
    When he said they could come and take it from him and his "American" knife? Do you not think the shop owner/worker looked cowed? The poor bugger was probably just trying to fit in by flying the flag anyway, and knew nothing about your odd law (after all, isn't it your constitutional right to burn the thing as "free speech" or something?)

    And if you call that ***** a gentleman, you have a very odd idea of the term!
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  7. tirk's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I love dumb laws.
    So do I. Unfortunately with a jury system you just can't get convictions these days!!
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  8. #28  
    Hobbes,

    Thanks for sharing. People really don't get the difference in crime between the US and Euroland.

    In Euroland, people accept crime and just bend over and take it.

    In the US, people believe in justice.

    Bottom line - all the things people rail against - healthcare, crime, etc. are much better here in the US...they just don't have a frame of reference to compare.

    My buddy used to get his scooter/motocycles stolen constantly in the UK. He said the cops told him (paraphase) not to waste his time. After his 4th one was ripped off, he gave up. No reporting, no enforcement.

    And foreigners who come here are often surprised by the police - normally, they avoid them, and think they are a joke (because of their own country). When they get over their suspicion, they are amazed. One guy I know was mugged, and the cops caught the guy two weeks later. They came back to him to have him press charges, and he was like, naw, no big deal. The cops were like WTF?

    There really is a weird attitude that permeates those cultures.
  9. #29  
    speaking of the police, anyone who really was in the military knows that the military knife as well as the M16, pistol and all other gear is required to be turned in upon discharge for use by other troops. if this person was waving and bragging about his knife to MPs (thats military police for all you don't know) on a military base he would rightly have his **** busted for stealing government property and have his knife taken away.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    speaking of the police, anyone who really was in the military knows that the military knife as well as the M16, pistol and all other gear is required to be turned in upon discharge for use by other troops. if this person was waving and bragging about his knife to MPs (thats military police for all you don't know) on a military base he would rightly have his **** busted for stealing government property and have his knife taken away.
    Weíre getting a little far afield with the hypothetical arenít we? MPís?......M16? Who knows where the knife came from? You can get most anything at a military surplus store. (Not sure about your M16 though).
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    We’re getting a little far afield with the hypothetical aren’t we? MP’s?......M16? Who knows where the knife came from?
    Anyway Iago, I was left with the impression it was his knife but looking back at the video he carefully said it was "a knife" not his knife from the us military. So you are correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    You can get most anything at a military surplus store. (Not sure about your M16 though).
    No I turned all my stuff in! Except the M16 though....dont tell anyone OK?
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/07/2007 at 03:46 PM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Anyway Iago, I was left with the impression it was his knife but looking back at the video he carefully said it was "a knife" not his knife from the us military. So you are correct.

    No I turned all my stuff in! Except the M16 though....dont tell anyone OK?
    Don't worry I won't. As a matter of fact, you ought to take that M16......sign up with the minutemen and help secure our southern border. We all would be so proud.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  13. #33  
    Thanks but shooting at unarmed civilians or building a Berlin wall along the Rio Grande is not my idea of what America stands for.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I have shared this before a long time ago, but.....While in my college age years, I had my apartment (or flat) broken into twice. Once in the UK and once in the US.
    Having lived in Orlando for quite a number of years, I can tell you that Europeans visiting Mickey and friends or there for an international conference have learned that they have targets on their backs, primarily with petty crime, although a number of 'invasions' have taken place, traumatizing these visitors. Are the criminals ever caught in these situations? No. Are the police involved? Yes, but there are obvious barriers which seem to hinder their ability to exact justice in those circumstances.

    I've also experienced crime, as its victim, twice while in Orlando. Once in a home break-in and once with my vehicle being broken into. On both occasions, the police were called, they responded, filed their reports, and that was the end of that. In the case of the home break-in, I also knew who it was and where he lived, yet nothing was done. I later learned that this same scumbag was a CI for them.

    There is nothing black-and-white in comparing Europe and the US regarding law enforcement, in that our experiences are our own and no one else's. Crime rates are also subjective in that a similar appearing gauge may include arrests while the counterpart's may include convictions.
  15. #35  
    I certainly do not disagree with any of your thoughts. I am a former Corrections Officer for both Juvy and County Jails, my Bro-in-law is a Sgt in the Seattle PD, and my dad is a retired City Cop, so I understand better than most. My main comparison is how they initially responded to the same situation. In both of your examples, the cops did at least come out and they did file a report. I couldn't get them to even file a proper report in the UK...which did cause us grief when trying to work with the insurance companies.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I certainly do not disagree with any of your thoughts. I am a former Corrections Officer, my Bro-in-law is a Sgt in the Seattle PD, and my dad is a retired City Cop, so I understand better than most. My main comparison is how they initially responded to the same situation. In both of your examples, the cops did at least come out and they did file a report. I couldn't get them to even file a proper report in the UK...which did cause us grief when trying to work with the insurance companies.
    Never did I attempt to minimize your experiences, or that of anyone else. I simply do not buy into making broad, universal judgments based on personal experiences. Europe is quite diverse, moreso than the US. Due diligence in one corner of the US can equate to incompetence in another, as history has shown. Incidentally, I was told, on the scene of my home break-in, to forget it ever happened and that my property was gone.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Thanks but shooting at unarmed civilians or building a Berlin wall along the Rio Grande is not my idea of what America stands for.
    Well, you know what they say.....if you don't stand for something.....you'll fall for anything. (as in comprehensive immigration reform)
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Well, you know what they say.....if you don't stand for something.....you'll fall for anything. (as in comprehensive immigration reform)
    Multiply ( http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local...rant_laws.html ) this by at least a thousand and that's what awaits our country if this wave of xenophobia continues, towns that were once bust will return to that status, economies going down the tubes and perhaps billions of dollars wasted on litigation...and on another front... The KKK and other hate groups have been reaping the rewards of all the hate mongering you support: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...198895,00.html
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by titoisme View Post
    Multiply ( http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local...rant_laws.html ) this by at least a thousand and that's what awaits our country if this wave of xenophobia continues, towns that were once bust will return to that status, economies going down the tubes and perhaps billions of dollars wasted on litigation...and on another front... The KKK and other hate groups have been reaping the rewards of all the hate mongering you support: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...198895,00.html
    First of all, the only thing I support is the law. I haven’t read any reports of any minutemen breaking the law. However, the same can’t be said for all the apologists and open border advocates out there. Also, I recognize the fact that apologists like to trot out the xenophobia argument because it’s easier (and more convincing to non thinkers) to paint someone a racist. When that argument doesn’t hold sway then it’s the “day without a Mexican” multiplied by a thousand argument. (Haven’t seen the movie because of the poor reviews.... waiting for it to come to tv).
    You said “Towns that were once bust will return to that status?” My thoughts are ah?...... So? That’s a historical fact with small towns. What’s your point? Are you trying to make the illogical leap to say that it’s only a matter of time before our major cities dry up and wither away because all the day labors have left?

    .....here let me help you up.......by the way welcome. :-) If my comment prompted you to join.....maybe treocentral needs to start cutting me a check. hahaha
    Last edited by Iago; 10/08/2007 at 01:32 AM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  20. tirk's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    My buddy used to get his scooter/motocycles stolen constantly in the UK.
    I'm amazed you have friends in "Euroland" considering you find us all such a waste of space.
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