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  1.    #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I seem to recall your "compadre" Shortie calling someone stupid. I also seem to recall you calling me "a pompous ***".

    Not that I particularly care what names are being used here, but tell me, is THAT your idea of an honest discourse?
    That was me getting agitated at your "dishonest" discourse. But if it hurt your wittle feelings then I apologize.

    I choose to think of it as being honest with oneself and being honest with perceptions.
    You choose to think of it as being honest with oneself. I choose to think of it as typical neocon redefining.

    As a liberal, you seem to have a great deal of difficulty being called a liberal. You (and many others like you) seem to run away from the description.
    Not really. I just don't think that I am a liberal - at least not the neocon definition of one. I am a registered independent and a moderate by the very litmus test you posted. Of course, my answer key and yours were very different....go figure.

    Life is nuanced in some ways, and not particularly nuanced in other ways. To sit there and say that "life is nuanced" reeks of the same pigeon-holing you seem to be so vehemently against.
    Sure it does neo. Sure it does.

    My point was that not everything in life can be broken down into two columns. If you want to take that to mean that I've pidgeon-holed you then so be it. You're hereby pidgeon-holed as a neocon only able to see things as extreme left or extreme right.

    To say that abortion is a position of compromise is beyond absurd.
    To you it might be. You have no interest in the middle ground.

    Abortion is one of those "hot button topics" that people seem to fall squarely on one side or another on.
    Not really. To many people that I meet and discuss this with they are more inclined to say that they would never do it themselves but that they respect others opinion on the matter.

    To say that there is some sort of gray area here is disingenous and, yes, wishy-washy.
    *Sigh* More sound bytes.

    The issue is not so much who funds what, but whether you think it is permissable or not. People are not particularly pre-occupied with "who picks up the tab".
    Well I am. I don't want the government to over reach on either side of the issue such as they already have.

    We aren't talking about how deep tax-cuts should go here. We are talking about whether or not it is OK to take the life of the unborn.
    More sound bytes. Emotional sound bytes this time though. Nicely done.

    Your "compromise" angle here is un-adulterated bull****.
    Yes, I think we've established that your head is about to explode like a robot that just received an insolvable puzzle causing it to go into an indefinite programming loop of some sort.

    Guys "like me". Whatever that means.
    It means you have a myopic and frankly sorry view of the world.

    Bush got elected twice becasue the alternative positively blew. Gore was a snake in the grass
    Really? Prove it.

    Also I thought it was the fact that the right-wing media defined him early on as a robot and perpetrated lies about his supposed claims of "inventing the internet". Or perhaps it was that the GOP actually managed to convince people that Gore's sigh at one of the debates (because he knew he was debating a twit) made Al someone "you'd rather not have at a BBQ".

    and Kerry was a liar and a hypocrite who holds nothing as sacred.
    Well I wasn't a big fan for other reasons. But please do tell us all how he was a liar that held nothing sacred.

    The last thing the country needs is a wishy-washy panderer. The country needs a decisive leader - whether it be liberal or convservative.
    Well then you ought to be helping Bush pack his bags then because he is the Commander n' Panderer.

    Have you seen where Pelosi and Co. have been polling?
    Um...did you happen the notice what this thead was supposed to be about and who started it?

    Flowery romanticism that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.
    Of course not - you're a neocon. Besides you're a bit short on flowers I hear since your "friends" in Iraq forgot to bring them on the way to the victory parade.

    Why would I be afraid of a uniter? I wish the country had a strong personality to do what needs to be done.
    As long as they do it exactly your way. Right?

    The last time we had that was with Reagan. I fear that type of politician is now extinct, hence my sentiment that the country is in dire need to real leadership.
    Naturally I cannot completely agree with your sentiment about Reagan. But he was better than both Bush Presidents.

    Leadership? What do you know about leadership?
    Last edited by moderateinny; 10/01/2007 at 01:53 AM.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Perhaps you can breath easy knowing that there might be light at the end of the tunnel for those of us tired of the reign of terror perpetrated by extreme right-winger's in the GOP?



    Could it be the GOP won't have social wedge issues to cloud the voter's view of their corporate criminal minds in 2008?

    One can only pray....
    Well....that is welcome news. Barring any unforseen events (like Bush starting another war and declaring Marshall law (wouldn’t put it past him) I think the Republican’s will be relegated back to cellar dwelling on the Hill. In fact, this man has so throughly screwed things up, I do believe he may have turned off a whole generation of voters towards the Republicans. The amazing thing is......... they allowed him to do it.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  3.    #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    As opposed to you, who gives incessantly ambiguous answers when incesive and direct questions are asked? You, who runs away from taking a stand on the issues, are sitting there criticising me?

    Rich....very rich.
    Incessantly ambigous answers? Hmm...you still don't understand my position on abortion? Then again, why am I even asking? Of course you don't neo. It requires careful thought and consideration of someone else's opinion and an openess that you might just appreciate some aspects of their opinion rather than your twisted ALL or NOTHING way of parsing that persons opinion. So as usual, you need things to fit neatly into a little neo box for your little neo mind.

    You remind me of John Kerry, except in that you are less convincing.
    Thank you. If you meant in a 3-purple heart kind of way, you're close.

    I fail to see how a Reagan republican would see Goldwater as liberal, but I suppose in your own little world, the notion would work.
    Since I doubt you were even alive when Barry was around I think you ought to check out a great documentary I saw about him on PBS (I think..maybe it was the History Channel). He'd be a moderate today for sure - perhaps even a moderate Democrat.
    Last edited by moderateinny; 10/01/2007 at 01:56 AM.
  4. gojeda's Avatar
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    #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    That was me getting agitated at your "dishonest" discourse. But if it hurt your wittle feelings then I apologize.
    You should actually apologize for saying that you want honest discourse when, in fact, your puerile name-calling says otherwise.

    You choose to think of it as being honest with oneself. I choose to think of it as typical neocon redefining.
    Fair enough.

    Not really. I just don't think that I am a liberal - at least not the neocon definition of one. I am a registered independent and a moderate by the very litmus test you posted. Of course, my answer key and yours were very different....go figure.
    You are a moderate liberal, and I think your answers said as much.

    Sure it does neo. Sure it does.
    What can I say. Saying "life is nuanced" is just another way of saying I am a flip-flopper and change my opinion based on the political weather-vane of the day.

    To you it might be. You have no interest in the middle ground.
    Depends on the issue.

    Not really. To many people that I meet and discuss this with they are more inclined to say that they would never do it themselves but that they respect others opinion on the matter.
    The endless Washington marches and clinic bombings say otherwise.


    *Sigh* More sound bytes.

    Well I am. I don't want the government to over reach on either side of the issue such as they already have.
    I think you'll find most are interested on whether abortions should be legal or not.

    More sound bytes. Emotional sound bytes this time though. Nicely done.
    Abortion is an emotional debate, if not *the* emotional debate of the day, for both sides, your point?

    Yes, I think we've established that your head is about to explode like a robot that just received an insolvable puzzle causing it to go into an indefinite programming loop of some sort.

    It means you have a myopic and frankly sorry view of the world.
    Wandering off topic again I see.

    Really? Prove it.
    Well, let me cite an example.

    Algore had an older sister who died of lung cancer in, if I recall correctly, in 1984. He spoke about her at the 1996 Democratic convention. Since her death, he has been a strong advocate of several anti-tobacco campaigns.

    Noble enough, right? Unfortunately, Algore left out the rest of the story, for you see Algore vigorously persued the tobacco vote. As a matter of fact, he accepted contributions from the tobacco industry until, at least 1990.

    He later said that he was emotionally torn over the issue. However, that emotional trauma did not prevent him from cashing those checks.

    Shall I go on?

    Also I thought it was the fact that the right-wing media defined him early on as a robot
    Not particularly different than the left-wing media defining Bush as a cowboy, now is it?

    Well I wasn't a big fan for other reasons. But please do tell us all how he was a liar that held nothing sacred.
    'Christmas in Cambodia' means anything to you?
    Pro-Hanoi activism?
    Pushing the green agenda while owning a fleet or SUVs and a private jet? (Oh, that's right, the jet belonged to Teresa)

    Well then you ought to be helping Bush pack his bags then because he is the Commander n' Panderer.
    If Bush was a panderer, his polling numbers would reflect that.

    Um...did you happen the notice what this thead was supposed to be about and who started it?
    Which makes your remark all the more mystifying.

    Of course not - you're a neocon. Besides you're a bit short on flowers I hear since your "friends" in Iraq forgot to bring them on the way to the victory parade.
    Cute - but short on substance. You should be Hillary's speech writer.

    Leadership? What do you know about leadership?
    Apparently quite a bit more than you do.
  5.    #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    You should actually apologize for saying that you want honest discourse when, in fact, your puerile name-calling says otherwise.
    Apologize for what? You came parachuting into this thread guns ablazing and apparently not know anything about the context of most of it and other than the fact that a) moderateinny must die, and b) anyone who differs with you about the 2000 election must die. Sadly you never bothered to realize your quarrel was not with me on the 2000 election since my only point about Bush was that it was my opinion that he acted like a spoiled brat. Tough $hit if you don't agree, it is my opinion.

    You are a moderate liberal, and I think your answers said as much.
    By what measure? You're stupid left/right scoring system and arbitrary half point awards for a bunch of questions that barely resemble the proper definition of a liberal? Can you be any more full of yourself?

    What can I say. Saying "life is nuanced" is just another way of saying I am a flip-flopper and change my opinion based on the political weather-vane of the day.
    Oh don't even get me started on the neocon flip-flops as Bush has proven himself to be quite the flipper himself. As for you....well it is obvious that you're a rock head with very very thick tunnel-vision glasses only interested in defining things as binary so that you can toss those that don't share your extreme views into the "left" column and mow them over rather than understand the nuances of their arguments.

    The endless Washington marches and clinic bombings say otherwise.
    The endless marches are the of the very same ilk as you - foaming at the mouth and finding no common ground in the matter because they only see the subject as having two solutions - pro or anti. But as it is with many subjects in politics, those that march are usually on the fringes of the subject and those in the middle talk to each other and reason. Sadly, the extreme right-wing has made the possibility of reasoning to be out-of-the-question since it suits their political purposes all to well.

    I think you'll find most are interested on whether abortions should be legal or not.
    In your circle of "friends" I'm sure it is. In my circle of friends we can actually discuss the issue without getting emotional and find middle ground. It's the great promise of a America that I rather enjoy - intelligent discourse without being shouted down by extremist goons....well at least it was something I enjoyed.

    Abortion is an emotional debate, if not *the* emotional debate of the day, for both sides, your point?
    Well that is your first problem - you've allowed the emotional aspects to blur your vision such that anything in between black or white simply does not register with you. But to your point, yes abortion is an emotional issue because the extremes from both sides keep it in the emotional domain as it suits their agendas.

    Algore had an older sister who died of lung cancer in, if I recall correctly, in 1984. He spoke about her at the 1996 Democratic convention. Since her death, he has been a strong advocate of several anti-tobacco campaigns.

    Noble enough, right? Unfortunately, Algore left out the rest of the story, for you see Algore vigorously persued the tobacco vote. As a matter of fact, he accepted contributions from the tobacco industry until, at least 1990.

    He later said that he was emotionally torn over the issue. However, that emotional trauma did not prevent him from cashing those checks.

    Shall I go on?
    Only if you can provide sources. It sounds like typical right-wing slandering, much the same as the story that he supposedly claimed he invented the internet.

    Not particularly different than the left-wing media defining Bush as a cowboy, now is it?
    LOL...the difference is that Bush IS a cowboy! Have you not noticed he has played cowboy on his ranch for nearly one full year of his Presidency now?

    'Christmas in Cambodia' means anything to you?
    Pro-Hanoi activism?

    Pushing the green agenda while owning a fleet or SUVs and a private jet? (Oh, that's right, the jet belonged to Teresa)
    Sources please?

    A flawed man for sure. Like I said, he wasn't my favorite either. For me it came down to which was more flawed. Bush has proven himself to be even more flawed than I feared he would be.

    If Bush was a panderer, his polling numbers would reflect that.
    Oh he is a panderer all right. It's just that he largely panders to the right.

    Apparently quite a bit more than you do.
    I'm reasonably certain I forgot more about leadership than you'll ever know. But now we're just digressing....
  6. gojeda's Avatar
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    #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Apologize for what? You came parachuting into this thread guns ablazing and apparently not know anything about the context of most of it and other than the fact that a) moderateinny must die,
    LOL!

    and b) anyone who differs with you about the 2000 election must die.
    Anyone can differ with the process of the 2000 election. That is an entirely different argument. However there is no need to misrepresent the facts and spread falsehoods either.

    Sadly you never bothered to realize your quarrel was not with me on the 2000 election since my only point about Bush was that it was my opinion that he acted like a spoiled brat. Tough $hit if you don't agree, it is my opinion.
    Spoiled brat or not, the constitutional process is what it is - and worked well here.

    By what measure?
    By your responses.

    Oh don't even get me started on the neocon flip-flops as Bush has proven himself to be quite the flipper himself. As for you....well it is obvious that you're a rock head with very very thick tunnel-vision glasses only interested in defining things as binary so that you can toss those that don't share your extreme views into the "left" column and mow them over rather than understand the nuances of their arguments.
    Prove it.

    The endless marches are the of the very same ilk as you - foaming at the mouth and finding no common ground in the matter because they only see the subject as having two solutions - pro or anti.
    There are only two solutions because either it is permitted....or not. The same with capital punishment. It would seem rather ridiculous to "kind of" have capital punishment. It is sort of being "kind of" pregnant.

    But as it is with many subjects in politics, those that march are usually on the fringes of the subject and those in the middle talk to each other and reason. Sadly, the extreme right-wing
    ...and extreme left-wing...

    has made the possibility of reasoning to be out-of-the-question since it suits their political purposes all to well.
    Well, like I said, this isn't a tax cut issue where the numbers can be ironed out. People are passion about abortion and hot-button issues by the very nature of the issue itself - not because of some imaginary unwillinginess to talk.

    Some things in life can be compromised. Some cannot.

    In your circle of "friends" I'm sure it is. In my circle of friends we can actually discuss the issue without getting emotional and find middle ground.
    Again, I will remind you that you are the one who has decided to take the low road with calling people stupid. Do you tell your friends that they are stupid when they do not see things your way?

    It's the great promise of a America that I rather enjoy - intelligent discourse without being shouted down by extremist goons....well at least it was something I enjoyed.
    You can still do that. However, if you can't handle the occassional heckler, then perhaps political discussion is not your cup of tea. Perhaps talking about knitting techniques would be more to your liking.

    Well that is your first problem - you've allowed the emotional aspects to blur your vision such that anything in between black or white simply does not register with you. But to your point, yes abortion is an emotional issue because the extremes from both sides keep it in the emotional domain as it suits their agendas.
    It is an emotional issue because there is no real middle ground on issue precisely because it is one of those yes and no issues.

    Only if you can provide sources. It sounds like typical right-wing slandering, much the same as the story that he supposedly claimed he invented the internet.
    Are you denying that Gore grew up on a tobacco farm, worked on a tabacco farm, and had significant ties to the tobacco industry even after his sister's death?

    I want you to go on record here before I provide the sources. I don't want you weaseling out after the pertinent information has been provided.

    LOL...the difference is that Bush IS a cowboy! Have you not noticed he has played cowboy on his ranch for nearly one full year of his Presidency now?
    <yawn>

    Sources please?
    About Skerry's notorious hypocrisy?

    "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it." Did you forget that?

    How about John Kerry's campaign rhetoric lamenting the flow of jobs overseas when his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry (yes, of Heinz & Co.) has made a tremendous amount of money because of her portfolio based on Heinz & Co. holdings?
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...inz-bush_x.htm

    SUV Hypocrisy:
    http://blogs.motortrend.com/6215302/...ing-hypocrisy/

    Want me to go on? I can write volumes here.

    Oh he is a panderer all right. It's just that he largely panders to the right.
    I maintain that a panderer would do much better in the polls, but would probably not be an effective leader.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    [...] Barring any unforseen events (like Bush starting another war and declaring Marshall law [...]
    Considering I'm an INTP and more into the meta-debate, this has gone somewhat off the ranch for me, but I just wanted to point out that it's martial law (Marshall is a surname, marshal is a person in charge of maintaining order, and martial is something related to war or the armed forces, e.g. martial arts or martial law).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    If Bush was a panderer, his polling numbers would reflect that.
    Who do you think make up the remaining 29% of Americans who are telling Bush "Heck of a job, Georgie. Heck of a job"? The same 29% who fervently believe Jesus is coming back to earth to save them from liberals.... this year.
  9. gojeda's Avatar
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    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Who do you think make up the remaining 29% of Americans who are telling Bush "Heck of a job, Georgie. Heck of a job"? The same 29% who fervently believe Jesus is coming back to earth to save them from liberals.... this year.
    <begin imitation of Shortie>
    Sources please?
    </end imitation of Shortie>

    Of course, this begs the follow-up question. Since your Democratically controlled Congress is polling even lower than the President is, what would be their excuse?

    Pull up a chair chaps. This forthcoming fit of spin from Shortie should be quite entertaining.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Considering I'm an INTP and more into the meta-debate, this has gone somewhat off the ranch for me, but I just wanted to point out that it's martial law (Marshall is a surname, marshal is a person in charge of maintaining order, and martial is something related to war or the armed forces, e.g. martial arts or martial law).
    Thanks for the clarification Toby. In my eagerness to jump in.... and pile on.....to reiterate my contempt ....to point out the possible ramifications of those 59 million misguided votes......I was not being my usual careful self.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  11. gojeda's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Thanks for the clarification Toby. In my eagerness to jump in.... and pile on.....to reiterate my contempt ....to point out the possible ramifications of those 59 million misguided votes......I was not being my usual careful self.
    Sounds like someone is making excuses, because as misguided those 59 million may or may not have been, at least they know the difference between the words 'martial' and 'marshall'.

    This *****slap has been brought to you by....me
  12.    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    LOL!
    I'm not laughing.

    Anyone can differ with the process of the 2000 election. That is an entirely different argument. However there is no need to misrepresent the facts and spread falsehoods either.
    And where did I do that? I have an opinion on the 2000 election and it is one that you disagree with.

    Spoiled brat or not, the constitutional process is what it is - and worked well here.
    Had there been a majority of "liberals" on the bench things would have been different. So don't gloat too much because sadly enough for our country even SCOTUS has been politicized - by both parties. Had the "constitutional process" not break your way I'm certain you'd be up here foaming at the mouth over that too.


    By your responses.
    And your credentials are?

    There are only two solutions because either it is permitted....or not. The same with capital punishment. It would seem rather ridiculous to "kind of" have capital punishment. It is sort of being "kind of" pregnant.
    No its not. Let me try this again, although I know you'll "weasel" out of it rather than offer any semblence that you understand my point.

    Let's say for a moment that I attended a "pro-choice" planning session for an upcoming march. During the course of that meeting I tell the planners that I:

    a) oppose late term abortions (except in the case of incest, rape, or the mother's life is endangered)
    b) generally support parental notifications by minors
    c) oppose federal funding for most types of abortions (meaning, if someone is poor and her life is at risk and she is receiving medicare anyway I'd support the abortion under those circumstances)
    d) personally oppose abortion

    Now what do you suppose the leaders of such a march would say to me? Do you think they'd still consider me "pro-choice"? HELL NO! I'd be escorted to the door. Why? Because their position is one based on absolutes, much like yours.

    ...and extreme left-wing...
    In what way? In reviewing my positions on your neocon definition of a liberal, what reponse did I make that makes me "extreme"? Wasn't it you that just called me a "moderate liberal"? You seem to be flip-flopping yourself to suit your arrogant and condenscending way of conducting the "honest discourse" you claim to value so much.

    Well, like I said, this isn't a tax cut issue where the numbers can be ironed out. People are passion about abortion and hot-button issues by the very nature of the issue itself - not because of some imaginary unwillinginess to talk.

    Some things in life can be compromised. Some cannot.
    Umm..doesn't seem imaginery at all to me. You seem unable and unwilling to even condiser the possibility that there is some middle ground on this issue.

    Again, I will remind you that you are the one who has decided to take the low road with calling people stupid.
    Cry me a river troll. I've expressed frustration and lost my cool with someone that cannot be reasoned with because he thinks that "heckling" is a form of honest discourse.

    Do you tell your friends that they are stupid when they do not see things your way?
    You're not my friend.

    You can still do that. However, if you can't handle the occassional heckler, then perhaps political discussion is not your cup of tea. Perhaps talking about knitting techniques would be more to your liking.
    I'll be OK neo. Thanks for your concern though.

    It is an emotional issue because there is no real middle ground on issue precisely because it is one of those yes and no issues.
    I'm reminded of the age old question, "if a tree falls in a forest but you're not there, does it make a sound?" I think we both know how you'd answer that. Much the same way you're ilk would have reacted when/if Columbus were to tell you the world is round.

    Are you denying that Gore grew up on a tobacco farm, worked on a tabacco farm, and had significant ties to the tobacco industry even after his sister's death?

    I want you to go on record here before I provide the sources. I don't want you weaseling out after the pertinent information has been provided.
    There is nothing to go on record about. You're asserting that he willfully took campaign contributions from tobacco and misrepresenting how he felt about it (as though you're in his head). So please point to the sources that prove he is the evil ba$tard you claim that he is.

    I find it disturbing if he did take the money but then again I don't know the circumstances....or even if he did for that matter. So prove it to me please. And try not to point to too many right-wing sources in doing so.

    About Skerry's notorious hypocrisy?

    "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it." Did you forget that?
    Nope. Taken out of context it was a HUGE political mistake to misspeak - especially since the GOP successfully milked (Karl Rove) his mistep and to make him seem that he was more of a flip-flopper than Bush.

    How about John Kerry's campaign rhetoric lamenting the flow of jobs overseas when his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry (yes, of Heinz & Co.) has made a tremendous amount of money because of her portfolio based on Heinz & Co. holdings?
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...inz-bush_x.htm

    SUV Hypocrisy:
    http://blogs.motortrend.com/6215302/...ing-hypocrisy/

    Want me to go on? I can write volumes here.
    Sure go ahead. Maybe that will keep you busy in this thread while we move on to more interesting subjects in a new thread.

    I maintain that a panderer would do much better in the polls, but would probably not be an effective leader.
    OK. I maintain that he pandered to his base and divided the country.

    Ba bye neo. I have to go play with the adults now and catch another flight.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Sounds like someone is making excuses, because as misguided those 59 million may or may not have been, at least they know the difference between the words 'martial' and 'marshall'.

    This *****slap has been brought to you by....me
    Whatever you say Mr. "napkin." hahahaha ........o''yeah.....slap....slap....This is the second time you've been knocked down for being "cute." You need to quit dancing, you tend to trip over yourself.
    Last edited by Iago; 10/01/2007 at 07:06 PM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
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    #154  
    Very entertaining thread this turned out to be. I consider myself a right-leaning moderate. I do not like to be called a moderate conservative, because with that title comes with baggage that I don't want. I am pro-choice (whatever that means to you), I don't want religion in the schools or government, I am on the fence about gun-control (we need stricter policies), I recycle as much as possible, I try to conserve energy as much as possible, I don't have the greenest lawn on the block b/c I don't water my lawn every day and use chemicals to make it greener, I don't......blah, blah, blah. Most "normal" people do what they can to improve their quality of life while helping others they see as needing help.

    With that said, who cares what they call me. I vote with my gut (actually, with my gut, I should get more than one vote....hehehe anyone? is this thing on? <car crash>), whether that is considered liberal or conservative or independent.
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    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Whatever you say Mr. "napkin." hahahaha ........o''yeah.....slap....slap....
    So what's next Iago, are you going to tell us what a "grate" president Hillary is going to be? Do you plan on "meating" her at a campaign stop in the future? LMFAO!!
    Last edited by gojeda; 10/01/2007 at 04:31 PM.
  16. gojeda's Avatar
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    #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I'm not laughing.
    I am.

    And where did I do that? I have an opinion on the 2000 election and it is one that you disagree with.
    When you said that Bush was acting like an ******* while not leveling the same accusation to Gore, for one.

    Had there been a majority of "liberals" on the bench things would have been different.
    This is in the realm of pure speculation. You can waste your time deliberating that in your mind.

    So don't gloat too much because sadly enough for our country even SCOTUS has been politicized - by both parties. Had the "constitutional process" not break your way I'm certain you'd be up here foaming at the mouth over that too.
    But it didnt, so your point is moot.

    And your credentials are?
    Credentials for.....?


    No its not. Let me try this again, although I know you'll "weasel" out of it rather than offer any semblence that you understand my point.

    Let's say for a moment that I attended a "pro-choice" planning session for an upcoming march. During the course of that meeting I tell the planners that I:

    a) oppose late term abortions (except in the case of incest, rape, or the mother's life is endangered)
    b) generally support parental notifications by minors
    c) oppose federal funding for most types of abortions (meaning, if someone is poor and her life is at risk and she is receiving medicare anyway I'd support the abortion under those circumstances)
    d) personally oppose abortion

    Now what do you suppose the leaders of such a march would say to me? Do you think they'd still consider me "pro-choice"? HELL NO! I'd be escorted to the door. Why? Because their position is one based on absolutes, much like yours.
    Because it is an issue of absolutes. You can't "kind of" have an abortion just like you can't "kind of" get pregnant. Why this is going over your head is beyond me.

    That being said, would you be escorted to the door? It depends, really, on how radicalized they are.

    In what way? In reviewing my positions on your neocon definition of a liberal, what reponse did I make that makes me "extreme"?
    I never said you were extreme. I believe the verbage I used was "moderate liberal".

    Wasn't it you that just called me a "moderate liberal"?
    No. Re-read what I typed. You made a point about about the extreme right wing, to which I added the same can be said of the extreme left.

    You seem to be flip-flopping
    Sorry, you must have me confused with Algore or Skerry.

    Umm..doesn't seem imaginery at all to me. You seem unable and unwilling to even condiser the possibility that there is some middle ground on this issue.
    ...because there isn't.

    Cry me a river troll. I've expressed frustration and lost my cool with someone that cannot be reasoned with because he thinks that "heckling" is a form of honest discourse.
    I am not the one calling others "stupid" when dissenting opinions are expressed.

    Hey...its your reputation that takes the beating when you resort of sophomoric name calling, not mine.

    You're not my friend.
    So much for that liberal notion of "tolerance"....eh?

    I'm reminded of the age old question, "if a tree falls in a forest but you're not there, does it make a sound?" I think we both know how you'd answer that. Much the same way you're ilk would have reacted when/if Columbus were to tell you the world is round.
    Caveman says, "WHAT?!"

    There is nothing to go on record about. You're asserting that he willfully took campaign contributions
    No, I am not asserting anything. It is a well known fact and something to which he even admitted to.

    from tobacco and misrepresenting how he felt about it (as though you're in his head). So please point to the sources that prove he is the evil ba$tard you claim that he is.
    Regard Algore and big tobacco:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...t_fiction.html

    I find it disturbing if he did take the money but then again I don't know the circumstances.
    What possible "circumstance" could there be? He took money from big tobacco for at least six years after his sister's death from lung cancer. You don't see anything wrong with that? What could be the rationalization there?

    ...or even if he did for that matter. So prove it to me please. And try not to point to too many right-wing sources in doing so.
    Provided above.

    Nope. Taken out of context it was a HUGE political mistake to misspeak - especially since the GOP successfully milked (Karl Rove) his mistep and to make him seem that he was more of a flip-flopper than Bush.
    Ahh, I see...so it was Rove that made him say it! LMFAO!!
  17. gojeda's Avatar
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    93 Posts
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    104 Global Posts
    #157  
    Originally Posted by moderateinny
    Could it be the GOP won't have social wedge issues to cloud the voter's view of their corporate criminal minds in 2008?
    Yea......you aren't liberal. LMFAOO!

    Sometimes you just make things too easy Modboy
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    So what's next Iago, are you going to tell us what a "grate" president Hillary is going to be? Do you plan on "meating" her at a campaign stop in the future? LMFAO!!
    Who knows? If she’s elect, she may very well turn out to be as competent as her husband. I’m certainly not the ideologue you seem to be so I will refrain from carrying someone else’s water. (Incidently, that water bucket looks kinda heavy gojeda, don't hurt yourself). But one thing I do know is that we don’t have to speculate about your fuhrer and his record. His presidency has been a dismal failure. Wouldn’t you agree? Just put down your sword and bucket for a minute and think about it. Other than turning the Supreme Court to the right, what has he accomplished? I’ll wait for you to pull out the republican talking points. Remember to stay on script.....King George’s minions may be reading.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  19.    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    Yea......you aren't liberal. LMFAOO!

    Sometimes you just make things too easy Modboy
    Are you actually going to pretend that Karl Rove and the GOP hasn't used social wedge issues as their primary method of "defining" a candidate? That is not liberal - thats called not living in a cave.

    So how does that fact make me a "liberal" again?
  20. #160  
    No sweat! No spin necessary when scientific polling is used, even if it doesn't originate with Fox.

    Though my memory proved Bush's support to be overly optimistic at the time, and the Rapturists figure a few points off, the numbers are quite striking in their relationship to each other, in my opinion.



    Per Associated Press / AOL Poll- 12/31/06
    CBS News Poll - 01/04/07
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