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  1.    #1  
    Use the same personnel and technology present at area 51 to keep people out. Apply the same uncompromising security measures.

    Not to mention a fine or tax hike to all businesses and corporations who employ illegals. Eliminate the incentives, fewer border crossings.

    Those two methods should do the trick.....

    Not that any current or future administration would ever have the balls to do it.
  2. #2  
    The answer to the border crisis - enforce the laws on the books.

    Ben
  3. #3  
    Don't forget adding extra federal employees to field the complaints of citizens once prices on many products and services increase. We'll also need some programs to help some businesses from closing doors because of the increased labor costs. Here in Texas, illegals take a lot of the jobs that we don't want.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  4. #4  
    Before you take this any farther, you really should lay the foundation for exactly when in time this issue reached critical mass, eg 'crisis' status. Exactly when was that tipping point?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Before you take this any farther, you really should lay the foundation for exactly when in time this issue reached critical mass, eg 'crisis' status. Exactly when was that tipping point?
    ...during raygun's war on Central America.

    His devastating criminally unjustified support of rightwing death squads and mercenaries, bled and impoverished the poor peasants there -- driving millions here as refugees.

    and via Afganistan, Raygun's legacy also includes islamic terrorism and Bin Laden
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by stroths View Post
    ... illegals take a lot of the jobs that we don't want.
    all jobs can be filled if the compensation is enough

    perhaps I will wash dishes for $100/hour

    That belief that "we" won't do those jobs is a lie -- "we" won't do them for the pay that employers are able to pay illegals
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7.    #7  
    I don't know how its possible to identify the EXACT moment in time when this crisis reached a tipping point, but I do know that the problem is out of control right now.

    Bclinger, I agree we need to enforce the current laws, however no administration, present or future, seems intent on ever doing.

    It appears we will just let the situation continue on without enforcements. Just baffling.

    The overriding attitude in American politics on so many different issues in this country just seems to be " whatever" anymore. On many levels.

    I hope we get it together again.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    ...during raygun's war on Central America.

    His devastating criminally unjustified support of rightwing death squads and mercenaries, bled and impoverished the poor peasants there -- driving millions here as refugees.

    and via Afganistan, Raygun's legacy also includes islamic terrorism and Bin Laden
    Ah yes. The wonderful 80s. Reagan's version of Ozzie & Harriet.

    You mean the same Reagan wars which partnered with a little gun-and-drug runner named Manuel Noriega while Nancy just said no?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I don't know how its possible to identify the EXACT moment in time when this crisis reached a tipping point, but I do know that the problem is out of control right now.
    OK. Well, to be considered a 'crisis', a problem must have a definition.
  10.    #10  
    lifes2short, are you serious? I'm referring to the millions of illegal immigrants flooding across the Mexican/US border. They go unaccounted for.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    lifes2short, are you serious? I'm referring to the millions of illegal immigrants flooding across the Mexican/US border. They go unaccounted for.
    Has anyone ever been able to show what the historical ratio of illegal immigration is to legal immigration by an unbiased source, preferably?

    Not meaning to be obtuse, but in order to solve a problem, it must first be well-defined. Otherwise, a 'crisis' such as this is similar to screaming 'fire' in a crowded theater.
  12. #12  
    They go unaccounted for and do represent a serious threat to the security of this country. None of our presidents has taken this situation clearly and it will become an increasing threat to our well being.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    lifes2short, are you serious? I'm referring to the millions of illegal immigrants flooding across the Mexican/US border. They go unaccounted for.
  13. #13  
    Well, I would have to say that greed is at the core of our problem. Greedy politicians with their under the table deals, greedy business owners fixated on the immediate monetary gain, and yes, greedy citizens looking to save a little by having services performed dirt cheap. Every demographic is essentially turning a blind eye to lawlessness. The problem has gotten worse because now you have the enforcer of our laws, the federal government in on the charade.

    I think we will probably continue to just limp along until the ďgreed is goodĒ crowd think we have all learned to accept it. It would take an army of selfless people to get this country back on track. Iím talking about real statesmen who really have the interest of the country first. That is,... the interest of itís citizens. Sadly, I donít see any. Instead, I see a bunch of politicians on both sides of the aisle pontificating little more than na- na....na- na... bo-bo. Instead I see politicians and agency heads automatically throwing up their hands crying the problem is so big that we might as well in effect, do what their corporate puppet master wants. We elect people like this then wonder why they donít accomplish anything. Both parties want to sell us out, just for different reasons. All they have to do is just enforce the law. But instead of having our guardsmen help police our border, this government sends them to help police Iraq. I guess to hell with us. Iím just waiting for somebody to say.... ďlet them eat cakeĒ. Maybe then it will be time.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Has anyone ever been able to show what the historical ratio of illegal immigration is to legal immigration by an unbiased source, preferably?

    Not meaning to be obtuse, but in order to solve a problem, it must first be well-defined. Otherwise, a 'crisis' such as this is similar to screaming 'fire' in a crowded theater.
    According to this PEW research group, which prepared an analysis for a bipartisan congressional subcommittee, it appears that the rate of illegal immigration peaked and actually has been on the decline recently.
    http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/33.pdf
    http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=53

    This same source has a comprehensive analysis of immigrant demographics as well.
    http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf
  15.    #15  
    I have to ask you, lifeis2short and cellmatrix, do you think we have a problem with illegal immigration from mexico?
  16.    #16  
    Or from South America in general?
  17.    #17  
    Iago, I think your post pretty much sums it up. I fully agree with it..

    I have a hunch that many of our politicians probably derive campaign funding from corporations and or businesses which employ illegals, so enforcing these laws would jeopardize their continuing monetary support.

    All for the dollar. You're exactly right in that we have very few TRUE statesmen anymore. We have instead, opportunists looking to seize power rather than for the sake of improving our country.

    Sad. The new American way.
  18.    #18  
    Those damn righties cell!

    Sure the illegals often do the work we don't want to do for less and come here to better themselves.
    But are they contributing to social security by paying taxes like we do for living here? How do think they are mixing into the health care picture?

    I've never called them the scum of the earth who clean the toilets I crap in, cellmatrix. Those were YOUR words. Very classy there, cell.

    I'm not interested in calling these immigrants anything other than "illegal" here if that's in fact what they turn out to be, ok? So enough about their mistreatment or the "bad attitude" about them.


    Its a right wing AND left wing problem by the way. Neither side gives a damn about doing anything about it. So I think focusing on solely the "righties" here for the issue is pretty ridiculous.

    Since we can agree there is a problem, I think we can also agree that enforcing fines on these corporations who employ them would be a step in the right direction. A border patrol would also be a good way to ensure that the situation is under control - as best we can, anyway.

    Incidentally, I also think we should have our troops on our borders as opposed to Iraq which is a hopeless mess, but that is for another thread.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    You're exactly right in that we have very few TRUE statesmen anymore. We have instead, opportunists looking to seize power rather than for the sake of improving our country.

    Sad. The new American way.
    Yeah, it is sad. You know we've always had crooked politicians....but it just seems like the shady ones outnumber the honest ones now. Also, just about every aspect of the federal government is falling down on the job, much of it on purpose i'm afraid. The government agencies i've had experiance with couldn't care less how much education or expertise you bring to the job. They are much more interested in you being a "yes" person....doing what you're told. Just look at background of most ot the lawyers the governmnet hires now. They use to come from Ivy as well as other well known and respected schools. Not anymore. Ladies and Gentlemen please welcome graduates from dismal fourth tier Regents law school..... WTF! (It's been like this through out government since Bush was elected).
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Iago, I think your post pretty much sums it up. I fully agree with it..

    I have a hunch that many of our politicians probably derive campaign funding from corporations and or businesses which employ illegals, so enforcing these laws would jeopardize their continuing monetary support.

    All for the dollar. You're exactly right in that we have very few TRUE statesmen anymore. We have instead, opportunists looking to seize power rather than for the sake of improving our country.

    Sad. The new American way.
    Treobk, we continually bash the illegal immigrants and talk about them like they are the scum of the earth, when in reality they are in general hard working people trying to better their lives by the promise of work in the US. And they do contribute to our society, they grow the food you eat, they mow the lawns at the parks you take your children to, they clean the toilets you crap in. And they could do a lot more if they were given the chance instead of exploited into menial work. They also add to the cultural and artistic diversity of our society. And they do pay sales tax on the money which they do spend here. And for this they are demonized day and night by the right wing as if they are the cause of all problems in the United States.

    Yes immigration is a problem, and the underemphasized part of the problem lies in the illegal employers who have lured the illegals over here with underpaying jobs without paying payroll taxes, social security, federal and state income taxes, without any co-pay of insurance etc. All of that gone into the pockets of those who take advantage of the illegal workers. No ability for the illegal workers to have insurance of course means a drain on our health care system, which is very well known. And these illegal employers operate with impunity, they are not stigmatized deported or shot at over the border like the workers, they bascially are not at all worried about getting fined except in very rare circulstances.

    So surprisingly to you I guess, I do agree that immigration is a problem, its not the only domestic issue facing us, like its portrayed on conservative media but rather one of many issues, like health care, social security, the defect, the economy, education and research, which all are just as important. But it is a problem, and like Iago and you I feel it arises out of greed of business and individuals who hire them. If we started enforcing the laws on illegal employers, fining them, jailing them making it highly unprofitable to hire illegals, the effects on illegal immigration would be huge, far more than any other action, walls, minutemen, etc, we could possibly do. The demand would be gone.

    Those illegals that are here already and established themselves I do not begrudge them a chance to prove their worth to the US and a path to legal residency, based on the merit of what they offer us in terms of skills, ability to work and pay taxes etc.
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