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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    It's most likely a question of scale. If one of those populations suddenly jumped to say... more than 10% from a negligible or non-existent percentage, I think that there are likely to be some growing pains.

    Interesting that you bring up the last one. It seems to me that you may not live in an area which experienced a large Vietnamese immigration. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't always go as smoothly as you suggest.
    I personally have never been to the Lousiana regions where Vietnamese shrimpers came and were initially much resented.

    My impression from afar was that after Katrina -- and maybe even before -- they had become to be at least tolerated and perhaps even respected members of their communities.

    But in any event -- they were in part the kind of immigration effect that provokes anger on the part of an indigenous population -- in as much as they disrupted existing labor practices and effectively lowered wages.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. gojeda's Avatar
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Most opposition to immigration is provoked specifically by hispanic immigrants.
    I think you are mischaracterizing the issue.

    It seems to me that the dissatisfaction with hispanic immigrants is not so much because they are hispanic, but because they are illegal.

    I have not really heard an American say, "Down with the hispanics".

    What I have heard them say is that we want immigrants to be here legally. On the contrary, I find Americans (most of them, at least) are particularly sensitive to immigrants given the nation's history.

    Americans have seen how their country has in a short time become bilingual and bicultural.
    The obvious response here is that this country has always been multilingual and multicultural since day one.

    Calling any business now begins with: "press 1 for English, 2 for spanish."
    I suppose when ~15% of the population speaks another language in addition to English, these things will happen.

    What is the problem here again?

    Hispanics listen to spanish TV and radio networks (as well as newspapers), speak to each other in spanish -- and often have no incentive to learn english or to integrate into the society they've come to (usually illegally).
    Perhaps you have not had exposure to immigrants in this country, but I cannot tell you how many times I have been told by a new American, "I started learning, or picked up, alot of English when I started watching TV."

    That being said...

    BET caters soley to the black community in the US.

    LA has a Asian television station.

    Chicago has a Polish television station.

    ...on and on.....

    So, again, I am not sure where you are going with this.

    While millions of Asians have come to america during the last 20 yrs., there's been no comparable opposition to immigrants from China, Japan, or India.
    There is also no "comparison" either, as we do not share a land border with China, Japan, or India.

    I fail to see the saliency there.

    Asians have come almost always through legal means...
    Relative to who? To hispanics? Yes, I agree there. Relative to other groups? I don't think so.

    It has been estimated that 13% of Asians in the United States are here illegally, by far the second largest group of illegal immigrants in the US.

    Reference NPR's "Day to Day" from April 6, 2006.

    -- and as a group they make learning English and integrating into our society a primary goal.
    I take it, by your comments, you have not been to San Francisco, or Queens, New York?

    We are not offered the option: "press 3 for Vietnamese."
    I touched on this before. I would imagine if Vietnamese (or Asians, for that matter) made up 15% of the population, you would hear similiarly catered voice prompts.

    Miami is an indicator of what our future could become. The Cubans who've come there since the early sixties are as a group fiercely conservative,
    They also happen to be extremely well educated, relatively wealthy with a high percentage being business owners, and with sizeable families whose children are well educated themselves.

    and indifferent to civil rights and responsibilities. (perfect repugnicans)
    Civil rights and responsibilities, such as this?



    Surely, this was moment of clarity when it came to civil rights in this country.

    Absolutely intolerant of free speech, they routinely employ violence to prevent discussion of issues like reapproachment with Cuba.
    I suppose they "could" be intolerate due to the romantic liberal phonyism that was rammed down their throats in 1960s Cuba as well.

    Large sections of the city are like a foreign land where english is neither spoken or understood. Miami is a place where both black and white Miamians feel alienated and disenfranchised.
    It is also, by some measures, the most diverse city in the US, with a booming economy that is attracting many Eastern Europeans and South Americans.

    Funny, though, I have never heard the Jew on Miami Beach say he was disenfranchised - except when it came to "the hanging chads".

    Cubans also think it ok to break laws regarding smuggling of Cubans into Florida to smuggle arms into foreign countries
    ....as opposed to breaking laws by exporting nuclear technology to the Chinese as was done in the 1990s? Or smuggling of arms to Bosnia during the same time period?

    Oh wait.....that doesn't count, right?

    to as fight as mercenaries in latin america....
    No American mercenaries during the Spanish Civil War? No American mercenaries currently operating the jungles of Colombia and in the sands of Saudi Arabia, just to name to hot-spots?

    I find your commentary particularly rich. Were you not the chap, BARYE, that in another thread quipped that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are, in fact, mercenary wars?

    LOL, please BARYE - don't make me laugh.

    ..and to attack foreign civilians as terrorists.
    Who is attacking who? Where? How? LOL!

    I have to say, BARYE, that as I read through your post that I detected a gradual tone of increased embitterment (and confusion) in your verbage. It sounds like you have an axe to grind.

    Sounds like there was a spicy latin girl in your past you never got over.
    Last edited by gojeda; 10/24/2007 at 12:53 PM.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    ...Sounds like there was a spicy latin girl in your past you never got over.

    I've only a moment before my next waterboarding session, but I wanted to at least respond to this:


    long ago I knew a girl from Columbia (this is well before the mass hispanic migration.)

    Her father, a general, had once been the military attache at their embassy in DC.

    When she was very very young, he was killed during some coup back in Columbia.

    She and her mom were compelled to go into exile and came to DC.

    Because of their earlier diplomatic posting they were socially connected -- but not at all prosperous -- dependent entirely on her mom's work as a nurse.

    My former girlfriend worked as a babysitter to many prominent families. One of them was Donald Rumsfield's.

    One day she called me in a panic that she had accidentally locked herself out of Rumsefield's house.

    I came over and in reaching my arm through the glass slatts of the porch door to get to the inside latch, I accidentally broke one of the glass panels (but was able to then open the door).

    So maybe that's why they're waterboarding BARYE -- because I broke into Donald Rumsfeld's house ???
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  4. gojeda's Avatar
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    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I've only a moment before my next waterboarding session, but I wanted to at least respond to this:


    long ago I knew a girl from Columbia (this is well before the mass hispanic migration.)

    Her father, a general, had once been the military attache at their embassy in DC.

    When she was very very young, he was killed during some coup back in Columbia.

    She and her mom were compelled to go into exile and came to DC.

    Because of their earlier diplomatic posting they were socially connected -- but not at all prosperous -- dependent entirely on her mom's work as a nurse.

    My former girlfriend worked as a babysitter to many prominent families. One of them was Donald Rumsfield's.

    One day she called me in a panic that she had accidentally locked herself out of Rumsefield's house.

    I came over and in reaching my arm through the glass slatts of the porch door to get to the inside latch, I accidentally broke one of the glass panels (but was able to then open the door).

    So maybe that's why they're waterboarding BARYE -- because I broke into Donald Rumsfeld's house ???
    Well there was a time in Rome when you would have been fed to the lions for believing in a certain somebody, much less breaking into someone's home. I gather waterboarding would be a bit of an improvement.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I personally have never been to the Lousiana regions where Vietnamese shrimpers came and were initially much resented.
    I think you're missing my point. Resentment isn't it. Cultural changes when they make a significant enough portion of the community is.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think you're missing my point. Resentment isn't it. Cultural changes when they make a significant enough portion of the community is.
    Do you mean to say "cultural changes" or "societal changes"? I think I follow where your thoughts are on this, but only trying to clarify. What you're ultimately opposed to are enabling government or societal measures which can be construed as anti-assimilation, correct? "Anti-assimilation" as in "Press-1 for English, multiple-language signs, etc. But, haven't maultiple-language signs been a part of American culture for eons, going back to mass immigration of the early 19th and 20th century?

    Incidentally, it appears that legal immigration of Mexicans has been quite high, considering all their revolutions, although I realize estimates of illegal mexican immigrants have been reported as high as 12 million.

  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Do you mean to say "cultural changes" or "societal changes"?
    Well, it's a bit of both which I'm referring to. Any time a percentage of the ethnic social mix changes significantly in a short time there are going to be some adjustments which happen. The bigger the percentage of change, the more we're going to notice (sometimes disproportionately so) the adjustments, regardless of whether the change is due to Mexican, Vietnamese, or whatever flavor of newcomer.
    I think I follow where your thoughts are on this, but only trying to clarify. What you're ultimately opposed to are enabling government or societal measures which can be construed as anti-assimilation, correct?
    I'm generally opposed to government spending money wastefully. How businesses or other social constructs spend their money doesn't matter to me as much. If the local church takes on a Vietnamese priest and decides to have a Vietnamese mass, no skin off my nose. Assimilation is likely to happen to some extent no matter what. I'd prefer to let it happen naturally as opposed to the way it happened for my ethnic group.
    "Anti-assimilation" as in "Press-1 for English, multiple-language signs, etc.
    I've no problem with those provided it doesn't impact costs too much. I'm a bit less enthused about government services being provided in multiple languages, or to be more specific, it would make more sense to me to provide the forms only in English, and provide translation services where necessary. OTOH, if providing multiple forms worked out to be cheaper, I would prefer that.
    But, haven't maultiple-language signs been a part of American culture for eons, going back to mass immigration of the early 19th and 20th century?
    Surely.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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