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  1.    #81  
    Remittances – Mexico is sanctioning illegal immigration to the US because it brings in huge sums of money – 2.7% of the GDP. Remittances from illegal immigrants in the US are mexico`s second largest source of foreign exchange earnings and have become the backbone of Mexico`s economy.

    In 2005, remittances surpassed $20 billion. By comparison, Mexico earned $35 billion from oil exports and $12 billion in tourism in 2005. $20 billion dollars! Now you know why El presidente fox and his govt was so vehement about having us roll over and accept his illegal immigration. It, in part, is about the money and treating humans as simply revenue sources, irrespective of the personal cost.

    How much better would we be if that $20 billion was added to our economy every year?!
  2.    #82  
    Economy and Education – Illegal aliens rarely pay taxes, yet they send their children to our schools free of charge. They receive welfare benefits, and get free medical treatment.

    They do not pay enough in taxes, so they act as an additional tax on US citizens. A study in 2002 finds that when all taxes are paid, and all costs are considered, illegal households created a fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. It was estimated that if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/24/2007 at 01:37 AM.
  3.    #83  
    in sum, Unlimited, large-scale illegal immigration is a problem for several reasons:

    1)these people are not assimilating to US culture, not learning the language and not becoming citizens, setting up a balkanization effect that is already in progress.

    2)Its an economic drain because liberal activist judges are forcing us to continue giving illegal immigrants free welfare benefits. So while those that work do contribute to the American economy, they don’t pay taxes but do receive free benefits and so are by their nature a drain on the economy.

    3)The proposed amnesty bill, which is unwanted by a LARGE segment of the American population, but the senate doesn’t seem to care. Politicans on both sides seem terrified of “OFFENDING the legal Hispanic voters.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Politics - More than 92% of the Mexican population voted for socialists, revolutionists, and greens. What if 12 – 20 million illegal immigrants were given voting rights or illegally obtained them as no one checks citizen status, in the US? You think the US is marching down the road of socialism now? Just you wait.
    if you would stop foaming at the mouth and chewing the carpet, and actually stopped to read and respond to what others write, you could have an intelligent productive dialogue.

    To start with, your 92 % number is idiocy.

    At least 45% voted for junior in 2000.

    Though he had lost the election and had fewer votes overall than Al Gore, the large number of hispanic votes enabled junior to at least come close.

    The hispanic political danger is that they are mostly very conservative catholics -- they are part of a society that is inherently intolerant and anti-liberal.

    As a group they will inevitably become reactionaries -- more and more like those Miami Cubans...
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/24/2007 at 01:36 AM.
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  5.    #85  
    THE SOLUTION:

    1)Enforce the laws on immigration.

    2)Punish those employing illegal immigrants. A few high profile busts will have a chilling effect on the employment of illegals nationwide.

    3)Simply discontinue all welfare benefits for illegal immigrants nationwide. This will require new legistlation at the national level. Once illegals cant get jobs and any more free welfare benefits, there will be less incentive to come here.

    4)Doing the above will put more pressure on el Presidente Vincente fox to get his house in order in Mexico, which is why he is against any change in the status quo relating to immigration.


    Unfortunately, I don’t see much political will in congress to really handle this problem.
  6.    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    if you would stop chewing on the carpet and actually read and respond to what others write, you could have an intelligent productive dialogue.

    To start with, your 92 % number is idiocy.

    At least 45% voted for junior in 2000.

    Though he had lost the election and had fewer votes overall than Al Gore, the large number of hispanic votes enabled junior to at least come close.

    The hispanic political danger is that they are mostly very conservative catholics -- they are part of a society that his inherently intolerant and anti-liberal.

    As a group they will inevitably become reactionaries -- more and more like those Miami Cubans...

    Thats 92% of the voters in Mexico during Mexican elections, not in the American population.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/24/2007 at 01:44 AM.
  7.    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I have (laboriously) read through this thread -- you seem to be the only one reraising and reraising race as an issue -- thou doth protest too much.

    Why have you not instead acknowledged that most here (left and right) largely agree that illegal immigration is a huge problem ??
    No, the racism aspect was repeatedly brought up by cellmatrix, D-bo, and lifes2short. I was NOT the one who FIRST brought this into mix.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/24/2007 at 01:38 AM.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    advanced societies should not take in large numbers of impoverished migrants from the 3rd world.

    This is especially true with our migrants from the south, people who are not just poor, but uneducated, and non-english speaking.

    And because they have been allowed to come in such huge numbers, their language and culture have amassed a sufficiently large critical mass to be self re-enforcing, and non-assimilationist.

    Adults come here, work, have children, and live in communities of people like themselves, and never learn english.
    Very true. You know in a former life I would help administer immigration benefits. Many people getting those benefits i.e. various visa's, work authorization, could not even read and write Spanish, so you know learning English is simply out of the question.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
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  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Welfare – welfare benefits for illegals creates a drain on the economy, and it attracts the wrong type of person to come to our country. Recall prop 187 from 1994 in California. This proposition would have stopped all welfare benefits for illegal immigrants in California. At the time these benefits added up to over $3 billion per year. In the past 12 years since then this has probably doubled.
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    4)Doing the above will put more pressure on el Presidente Vincente fox to get his house in order in Mexico, which is why he is against any change in the status quo relating to immigration.
    Mexico had a little thing called a democratic election almost a year ago. Calderon has been President since 12.1.06

    It's really not kosher to copy a less educated person's year-old homework.
    Last edited by lifes2short; 09/24/2007 at 06:23 AM.
  10. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    It's really not kosher to copy a less educated person's year-old homework.
    Well he has a pretend opinion with pretend facts, it fits with his pretend logic...
  11. gojeda's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    if you would stop foaming at the mouth and chewing the carpet, and actually stopped to read and respond to what others write, you could have an intelligent productive dialogue.

    To start with, your 92 % number is idiocy.

    At least 45% voted for junior in 2000.

    Though he had lost the election and had fewer votes overall than Al Gore, the large number of hispanic votes enabled junior to at least come close.

    The hispanic political danger is that they are mostly very conservative catholics -- they are part of a society that is inherently intolerant and anti-liberal.

    As a group they will inevitably become reactionaries -- more and more like those Miami Cubans...
    I fail to see how an "intolerant" lot integrates itself into the American culture as well as most hispanics have. But that is neither here nor there.....

    Some would say, of course, that the elections of 2000 were decided on the night when Janet Reno-Failure took it upon herself to extricate little Elian in the middle of the night. This, of course, pissed off quite a number of people in South Florida and, in all probability, cost Gore the state.


    Such are the little twists and turns of history.
    Last edited by gojeda; 09/30/2007 at 07:26 AM.
  12.    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Bo View Post
    Well he has a pretend opinion with pretend facts, it fits with his pretend logic...
    Its amusing to see how liberals insult you whenever you present them with problems to which they have no constructive responses.
  13.    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Mexico had a little thing called a democratic election almost a year ago. Calderon has been President since 12.1.06

    It's really not kosher to copy a less educated person's year-old homework.
    Do you have anything of value to contribute regarding the problems noted here?
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Do you have anything of value to contribute regarding the problems noted here?
    Once again 2short plays the blame game....his sour grapes conversations have a pattern that never quites so it seems.
    It,s totaly turned me off on off topic forum conversation.He has alot of spare time to add nothing.
    Last edited by slingbox; 10/18/2007 at 12:41 AM.
  15.    #95  
    I agree, slingbox. If they can't win, they resort to personal attacks and insults, which is when you know they've definitively lost. But it is a turnoff to off topic conversation - that's for sure.
  16. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Its amusing to see how liberals insult you whenever you present them with problems to which they have no constructive responses.
    Constructive is apparently in the eye of the beholder...

    I don't find it very constructive to cut and paste (and not even reference the source) other people's opinions/ info into this thread and pass it off as fact.

    Who is this mysterious 'they'? Anybody who doesn;t agree with YOUR opinion? You have been closed minded throughout this discussion so it's ironic for you to talk of 'constructive' dialog.

    Constructive is apparently in the eye of the beholder...

    I don't find it very constructive to cut and paste (and not even reference the source) other people's opinions/ info into this thread and pass it off as fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    If they can't win, they resort to personal attacks and insults, which is when you know they've definitively lost. But it is a turnoff to off topic conversation - that's for sure.
    Who is this mysterious 'they'? Anybody who doesn't agree with YOUR opinion? You have been closed minded throughout this discussion so it's ironic for you to talk of 'constructive' dialog.

    Is this constructive? Your message titled "D-bo, watch your mouth...":
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    Stop the insults RIGHT NOW, do you understand me? If you dont have a legitimate response or contribution to my thread regarding the border issue, then don`t post, but insulting me only tells me you`re out to instigate a flamewar, pal.
    Watch your god damned mouth.
    Again constructive does not mean agreeing with you. Honestly my intention was not to insult, but to point out that repeatedly posting information and trying to pass it off as fact (which it obviously wasn't) and refusing to provide a source (likely so it wouldn't be so obviously and easily discredited).

    As far as insults go, if I'm going to be threatened about a supposed insult I should at least make it a good one. **** YOU and your thread, you *** raping **** eating person.

    Last edited by Bill Gamble; 10/23/2007 at 08:20 AM.
  17.    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Bo View Post
    Constructive is apparently in the eye of the beholder...

    I don't find it very constructive to cut and paste (and not even reference the source) other people's opinions/ info into this thread and pass it off as fact.

    Who is this mysterious 'they'? Anybody who doesn;t agree with YOUR opinion? You have been closed minded throughout this discussion so it's ironic for you to talk of 'constructive' dialog.

    Constructive is apparently in the eye of the beholder...

    I don't find it very constructive to cut and paste (and not even reference the source) other people's opinions/ info into this thread and pass it off as fact.



    Who is this mysterious 'they'? Anybody who doesn't agree with YOUR opinion? You have been closed minded throughout this discussion so it's ironic for you to talk of 'constructive' dialog.

    Is this constructive? Your message titled "D-bo, watch your mouth...":


    Again constructive does not mean agreeing with you. Honestly my intention was not to insult, but to point out that repeatedly posting information and trying to pass it off as fact (which it obviously wasn't) and refusing to provide a source (likely so it wouldn't be so obviously and easily discredited).

    As far as insults go, if I'm going to be threatened about a supposed insult I should at least make it a good one. **** YOU and your thread, you *** raping **** eating person.


    You insulted my logic and essentially called me a racist. If you cant comprehend that those are insults then youve got some real issues, pal. Kiss off.
    Last edited by Bill Gamble; 10/23/2007 at 08:22 AM.
  18. #98  
    Watch the language, boys.
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  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by gojeda View Post
    I fail to see how an "intolerant" lot integrates itself into the American culture as well as most hispanics have. But that is neither here nor there.....

    Some would say, of course, that the elections of 2000 were decided on the night when Janet Reno-Failure took it upon herself to extricate little Elian in the middle of the night. This, of course, pissed off quite a number of people in South Florida and, in all probability, cost Gore the state.
    ...
    interesting observation:

    "...integrating itself into the American culture as well as most hispanics have."

    Most opposition to immigration is provoked specifically by hispanic immigrants.

    Americans have seen how their country has in a short time become bilingual and bicultural.

    Calling any business now begins with: "press 1 for English, 2 for spanish."

    Hispanics listen to spanish TV and radio networks (as well as newspapers), speak to each other in spanish -- and often have no incentive to learn english or to integrate into the society they've come to (usually illegally).

    While millions of Asians have come to america during the last 20 yrs., there's been no comparable opposition to immigrants from China, Japan, or India.

    Asians have come almost always through legal means, they are as a group almost always better educated -- and as a group they make learning English and integrating into our society a primary goal. We are not offered the option: "press 3 for Vietnamese."

    Miami is an indicator of what our future could become. The Cubans who've come there since the early sixties are as a group fiercely conservative, intolerant of dissent, and indifferent to civil rights and responsibilities. (perfect repugnicans)

    Absolutely intolerant of free speech, they routinely employ violence to prevent discussion of issues like reapproachment with Cuba. Large sections of the city are like a foreign land where english is neither spoken or understood. Miami is a place where both black and white Miamians feel alienated and disenfranchised.

    Cubans also think it ok to break laws regarding smuggling of Cubans into Florida, to smuggle arms into foreign countries, to as fight as mercenaries in latin america, and to attack foreign civilians as terrorists.
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  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    While millions of Asians have come to america during the last 20 yrs., there's been no comparable opposition to immigrants from China, Japan, or India.
    It's most likely a question of scale. If one of those populations suddenly jumped to say... more than 10% from a negligible or non-existent percentage, I think that there are likely to be some growing pains.
    Asians have come almost always through legal means, they are as a group almost always better educated -- and as a group they make learning English and integrating into our society a primary goal. We are not offered the option: "press 3 for Vietnamese."
    Interesting that you bring up the last one. It seems to me that you may not live in an area which experienced a large Vietnamese immigration. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't always go as smoothly as you suggest.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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