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  1.    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    An attack that succeeded.

    perhaps during my confinement I missed that -- I don't recall seeing anything about Iraqi's attacking the U.S. on 9/11.

    Ah, but there maybe was something I remember about Saudis attacking America -- what was it ?? 80 % of the al Queda crew were Saudis ??

    Maybe Iraq was all an innocent mistake ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    perhaps during my confinement I missed that -- I don't recall seeing anything about Iraqi's attacking the U.S. on 9/11.
    I didn't say anything about Iraqis attacking the U.S. on 9/11. I said the attack changed the circumstances that had to be considered.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I didn't say anything about Iraqis attacking the U.S. on 9/11. I said the attack changed the circumstances that had to be considered.
    An attack lead, manned, and financed by Saudis ???

    an attack planned and trained for -- from Afghanistan ??

    By a group of zeolots inspired by a Saudi islamic theocracy ??

    This was the "circumstance" that inspired junior to steal resources from the Bin Laden/ Taleban hunt in Afghanistan ????

    This is why nearly 4000 americans and maybe a million iraqis have been sacrificed ???
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/19/2007 at 02:25 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    an attack planned and trained for -- from Afghanistan ??
    By a Saudi who was upset because Clinton had lobbed a few cruise missiles at him, and because troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia. Why were those troops there? Why were they still there?
    This was the "circustance" that inspired junior to steal resources from the Bin Laden/ Taleban hunt in Afganistan ????
    Note that I'm not saying he made the correct decision. I'm just saying that he was dealing with different circumstances. OTOH, he was also dealing with the direct consequences of his immediate two predecessors.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    OTOH, he was also dealing with the direct consequences of his immediate two predecessors.
    Not quite sure I can agree with that. His dad (Bush-1) made the right call on both tossing Saddam out of Kuwait and then getting the heck out of there vs. invading Baghdad. Clinton was accused of wagging the dog for lobbing cruise missles at Bin Laden as direct consequence of being weakened his BJ woes. BTW a new thread debating just how patriotic the hypocrites that pursued him while cheating on their own wives and knowing full well it would weaken him as President by doing so would be interesting.

    Interestingly enough, while those on the right like to blame for Clinton for all things Bin Laden and his handling of Iraq the fact remains that Iraq no longer had WMDs when we finally decided to go in there. So apparently sanctions and the no fly zones must have done something to compel Saddam to dismantle his WMD program.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Not quite sure I can agree with that.
    Fair enough, but there's really no way to know right now.
    His dad (Bush-1) made the right call on both tossing Saddam out of Kuwait and then getting the heck out of there vs. invading Baghdad. Clinton was accused of wagging the dog for lobbing cruise missles at Bin Laden as direct consequence of being weakened his BJ woes.
    Things like that are really irrelevant to my position. They make great fodder for these sorts of discussions, but will ultimately be ignored by history.
    BTW a new thread debating just how patriotic the hypocrites that pursued him while cheating on their own wives and knowing full well it would weaken him as President by doing so would be interesting.
    I'd find it much more interesting to discuss how Ken Starr and Larry Flynt contributed to the Katrina debacle.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    ...

    I'd find it much more interesting to discuss how Ken Starr and Larry Flynt contributed to the Katrina debacle.
    Ken Starr got a BJ from Katrina ???

    where did you read that ???
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/19/2007 at 04:02 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Ken Starr got a BJ from Katrina ???
    There are Tshirts for sale all over NOLA about the BJ that was Katrina, but AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $Ken$ $Starr$ $doesn$'$t$ $have$ $one$.
    where did you read that ???
    It's one of my wacky theories. The Corps is one of the few government entities which is solely funded via Congressional pork. Bob Livingston would have probably steered more sensible projects towards Louisiana had he not had his difficulties with Larry.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    There are Tshirts for sale all over NOLA about the BJ that was Katrina, but AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $Ken$ $Starr$ $doesn$'$t$ $have$ $one$.

    It's one of my wacky theories. The Corps is one of the few government entities which is solely funded via Congressional pork. Bob Livingston would have probably steered more sensible projects towards Louisiana had he not had his difficulties with Larry.

    I doubt Livingston would have done squat.

    Mr. Livingston, I presume, supported Mr. Go.

    What he had he done to close that dagger aimed at NO's heart ??

    And it was Livingston's own BJs from his mistress that KOed his gig as House Speaker -- a revelation that spurted forth as he was hypocritically, dishonestly, moralized about Saint Bill.

    BTW -- didn't see those shirts for sale on NOLA
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I doubt Livingston would have done squat.
    Based on ??? I'm left assuming an irrational prejudice against Republicans.
    Mr. Livingston, I presume, supported Mr. Go.
    Supported in what way? MRGO was approved in the 50s and construction finished in the 60s. Livingston wasn't in politics at the time.
    What he had he done to close that dagger aimed at NO's heart ??
    What do you think he could have done?
    BTW -- didn't see those shirts for sale on NOLA
    "on NOLA"? Do you mean 'in'? They're all over Bourbon.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11.    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Based on ??? I'm left assuming an irrational prejudice against Republicans...

    What do you think he could have done?

    "on NOLA"? Do you mean 'in'? They're all over Bourbon.
    LOTS of experts & citizens pleaded with the Corps to close that evil canal -- they had warned for years of what actually came to happen..

    Livingston I presume, was in the pocket of those who opposed closing it, as was Corps.

    Stunning in the context of an artery that was little used, and which cost far more in maintenance etc. than it generated in revenue (or savings).


    (I thought you were referring to here for the t-shirts )
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    LOTS of experts & citizens pleaded with the Corps to close that evil canal
    Which evil canal? The one you referenced, or the one you linked to? They're two different things.
    -- they had warned for years of what actually came to happen..
    How many years?
    Livingston I presume, was in the pocket of those who opposed closing it,
    What would make you presume that?
    as was Corps.
    The Corps is, as it has always been, in the pocket of the Congress of the United States of America.
    Stunning in the context of an artery that was little used, and which cost far more in maintenance etc. than it generated in revenue (or savings).
    Are you a pilot? I'm curious as to where you're getting your information from.
    (I thought you were referring to here for the t-shirts )
    No, I'm referring to the shops all along Bourbon. I'm sure Larry's familiar with them since he seems to have opened a lot of clubs around there in recent years.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I'd find it much more interesting to discuss how Ken Starr and Larry Flynt contributed to the Katrina debacle.
    Cute. But seriously, the Dems have been accused of being unpatriotic for not getting behind the President and at times when he was under scutiny for far worse things than getting a BJ. I find it...well not too surprising...that it was just fine for the GOP to act like a pack of rabid dogs chasing Clinton and in doing so weakening his Presidency while many of them were conducting themselves in the same manner (having affairs). Thats politics I guess. But it certainly isn't quite as out of line as you've made it to be.
  14.    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Which evil canal? The one you referenced, or the one you linked to? They're two different things...
    As you probably know Toby, its been many years since I've owned NO and La. -- and so perhaps you might forgive my lack of precision in discussing the works you referenced, as they were commenced well after my ties there were cut. (and quite involuntarily too mind you -- as I was always hoping that New Orleans could get a real NFL franchise -- preferably the Skins ...)


    [btw, I meant Mr. Go., not 17st canal ??]
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/19/2007 at 11:48 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Cute.
    Nah. Quite ugly.
    But it certainly isn't quite as out of line as you've made it to be.
    I'm not sure what you're thinking I'm 'making out of line'?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    As you probably know Toby, its been many years since I've owned NO and La.
    There's a fine line between humorous and stupid. You're getting stuck on stupid with this sort of thing.
    -- and so perhaps you might forgive my lack of precision in discussing the works you referenced, as they were commenced well after my ties there were cut.
    I can forgive a lack of precision when it's innocent. I find it more difficult when it's from a stance of condescension.
    (and quite involuntarily too mind you -- as I was always hoping that New Orleans could get a real NFL franchise -- preferably the Skins ...)
    The Saints are real enough.
    [btw, I meant Mr. Go., not 17st canal ??]
    And you linked to the Industrial Canal which is neither.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I'd find it much more interesting to discuss how Ken Starr and Larry Flynt contributed to the Katrina debacle.

    I'm not sure what you're thinking I'm 'making out of line'?
    You don't understand how that statement was so patently absurd that it was clearly used rhetorically to mock my theory that the GOP hypocrites willfully sought to bring down Clinton at all cost and by doing so - over a BJ no less - made him a lame duck in his remaining months and thusly afraid to be repeatedly accused of "wagging the dog" if he dared attack Bin Laden deep inside Afghanistan?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    You don't understand how that statement was so patently absurd that it was clearly used rhetorically to mock my theory that the GOP hypocrites willfully sought to bring down Clinton at all cost and by doing so - over a BJ no less - made him a lame duck in his remaining months and thusly afraid to be repeatedly accused of "wagging the dog" if he dared attack Bin Laden deep inside Afghanistan?
    Um...it wasn't used rhetorically to mock anything, and it's far from absurd. Ken Starr and Larry Flynt undoubtedly cost us (Louisiana) quite a bit with their political pursuits. You don't understand how losing a member of Appropriations about to become the Speaker can negatively impact the future actions of a purely pork-funded operation? 8/29 impacted me a little more personally than 9/11, after all.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Um...it wasn't used rhetorically to mock anything, and it's far from absurd. Ken Starr and Larry Flynt undoubtedly cost us (Louisiana) quite a bit with their political pursuits. You don't understand how losing a member of Appropriations about to become the Speaker can negatively impact the future actions of a purely pork-funded operation? 8/29 impacted me a little more personally than 9/11, after all.
    My apologies - I admit I know very little about LA politics.
  20.    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    There's a fine line between humorous and stupid. You're getting stuck on stupid with this sort of thing.

    I can forgive a lack of precision when it's innocent. I find it more difficult when it's from a stance of condescension.

    The Saints are real enough.

    And you linked to the Industrial Canal which is neither.
    New Orleans, and Louisiana are subjects much more dear and close to you than to me or any outsider

    I can't know the details of the lakes, canals or water arteries like you must.

    What I wrote reflected my recollection of what I have read and seen in a variety of news reports and documentaries (possibly NOVA or Discovery) -- stuff that convinced me that much of the worst damage suffered by NO was the product of a man made, Corp created water way: Mr. Go -- a waterway that was intended to shorten travel time, but which many foresaw to be dagger at NO's throat.

    That article said: that the "Hurricane Katrina storm surge funneled by MRGO, created multiple breaches in the Canal, resulting in even more extensive catastrophic flooding... "

    If my recollection was wrong, tell me what really happened --- was the disaster inevitable ?? was it entirely unconnected to Corps created projects ??
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