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  1.    #1  
    1. I don't know the origins of that strange Chupa/TheKingOfSting argument, but it is unforgivable for anyone to search out and ultimately publish someone else's private information -- the context of how it happened in this case is very disturbing.

    2. in an earlier thread we, (me especially) joked about OT being the Love Canal of Treocentral forums. But since the people involved in this controversy aren't of the OT community, I don't think it was apropriate for them to be dumped here to pursue their "dialogue".

    Wasn't there an existing treocentral forum designated for this sort of thing ??

    Having recently returned after a long (self imposed) exile (for reasons some might recall), I'm anxious for OT to regain the energy and fun it used to have before those unmentionable times, before my extreme rendition to Gitmo.

    I miss the jousts with Hobbes, woof, dstraus, insertion, shop, etc etc. I wish the old gang could reassemble, I wish they'd come back and join with the cool intelligent folks here now.

    As much as I like and respect my lefty allies here, OT seems to lack enough conservative voices and passion to sustain good debates.

    Politically, everything seems both too polite and agreeable.

    Won't anyone (besides me) create controversial threads ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #2  
    Treocentral seems to be one of a select few that allows political discussions. Other forums prohibit them.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    But since the people involved in this controversy aren't of the OT community, I don't think it was apropriate for them to be dumped here to pursue their "dialogue".
    OT = Off topic, right? Treocentral is for Treo talk, not for set of specific people, or did I miss something?

    Wasn't there an existing treocentral forum designated for this sort of thing ??
    Sounds like an OT section of the forum.


    I miss the jousts with Hobbes, woof, dstraus, insertion, shop, etc etc. I wish the old gang could reassemble, I wish they'd come back and join with the cool intelligent folks here now.
    I remember "the good old days." They were not that good.... if I remember didn't some members go and form their own forum.... maybe you can visit them there... I hope they stay there....

    Politically, everything seems both too polite and agreeable.
    This forum could do like webhostingtalk and setup a "social issues" section that is lightly moderated, a sub-section of OT, and allows for exchanges that you seek.

    Won't anyone (besides me) create controversial threads ??
    I've not noticed any controversial threads that you have created... is the housing market crash considered controversial? Gay republican in Ohio? These would be in the "social issues" over at webhostingtalk. Maybe that is what you seek on this forum.
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  4. #4  
    at&t iPhone3G
  5. #5  


    "Yep, we fought us some terrible battles back then. But, folks was different from the way they is now. Dagnab it! They was better! Hell, ever'thing was!"
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    1. I don't know the origins of that strange Chupa/TheKingOfSting argument, but it is unforgivable for anyone to search out and ultimately publish someone else's private information -- the context of how it happened in this case is very disturbing.

    2. in an earlier thread we, (me especially) joked about OT being the Love Canal of Treocentral forums. But since the people involved in this controversy aren't of the OT community, I don't think it was apropriate for them to be dumped here to pursue their "dialogue".

    Wasn't there an existing treocentral forum designated for this sort of thing ??
    We put the thread here because we didn't realize the scope and depth of what this person (note the singular) was planning on doing. It's trolling of the worst kind and we are going to do our best to stop it, but we are going to need the TC community's help keeping an eye on everything. Please report posts, or email me directly (dieter@treocentral.com), or hit me up on AIM (aim icon over on the left) when you see anything sketchy.

    As for the OT and politics - we still do try to walk the fine line I elucidated back last July - allowing the open debate about most any topic while keeping it civil. It's actually a rather tough thing to do so I consider us all incredibly lucky to have the great team of mods that we have.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    We put the thread here because we didn't realize the scope and depth of what this person (note the singular) was planning on doing. It's trolling of the worst kind and we are going to do our best to stop it, but we are going to need the TC community's help keeping an eye on everything. Please report posts, or email me directly (dieter@treocentral.com), or hit me up on AIM (aim icon over on the left) when you see anything sketchy.

    As for the OT and politics - we still do try to walk the fine line I elucidated back last July - allowing the open debate about most any topic while keeping it civil. It's actually a rather tough thing to do so I consider us all incredibly lucky to have the great team of mods that we have.
    Dieter, keep up the good work!

    Bill early nomination for post of the year!!!!
  8.    #8  
    Jeez -- I was originally going to try to post something semi funny, but now I feel I must defend my vision of the forum...

    O.K. -- what makes this place potentially much better than a normal political blog is everyone here -- both agreeers and disagreeers. Blogs like Daily Kos etc. lack the diversity of POVs that a tech forum natively has.

    People come and go here primarily because of their cell phones, not their political agendas. The transient random serendipitous part of who participates becomes an important ingredient -- a part of the special spice. (the Colonel's secret recipe...hmmmm)

    Perhaps I'm retroactively romancing it, but in as much as anyone becomes real friends in a virtual coffee house, we did in the old forum -- though we were vastly different politically.

    Most of us could uninhibitedly say quite harsh things about our opponents ideas without anyone taking it personally. Right and left respected each other. We interacted with abrasive affection.

    Without getting much into things, it began to come apart when a new person joined the forum who took themselves a little too seriously, a person who lacked sufficient humor, maturity, and perspective to brush off the slights and insults that are a normal part of rambunctious political discussion. Misunderstandings, anger, and personality conflicts degenerated to the point that Mods felt compelled to intervene. I and many others felt it was done in an unfortunately destructive and heavy handed way. As a matter of principle, a lot of us left.

    The place we left for, as KStewart mentioned, was insertion's blog: Munks. Though I genuinely love my friends there, I understood with regret that it couldn't really sustain the interest that this place had because it lacked the core energy that randomness and surprise generate.

    Without a mechanism to consistently draw in new players, the pool of thought over time becomes stale. (and because of how people left here, it was primarily populated by an unbalanced number of conservatives.)

    Ultimately, participating in that forum had for me the same sensation as playing chess or XBOX 360 repeatedly against the same opponents -- after awhile mutual familiarity bred predictability and boredom.

    One of insertion's moderators, clairgrrl, saw that I often reread my own postings -- and teased me about it.

    I fessed up that no one enjoyed reading what I wrote more than me.

    Selfishly, that's a big part of why I'm here -- its a place where I can write about stuff and get the reactions of others who I don't know.

    The good old days here WERE good -- if you could read some of the better old threads I think you'd agree.


    (btw, septimus addressed the reasons I had originally posted).
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/09/2007 at 03:14 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    The place we left for, as KStewart mentioned, was insertion's blog: Munks. Though I genuinely love my friends there, I understood with regret that it couldn't really sustain the interest that this place had because it lacked the core energy that randomness and surprise generate.
    Thats because the core energy was generated from the senior member clique having an audience here. That same group will lose its core when by themselves without that audience.
    at&t iPhone3G
  10. #10  
    One of the reasons its not as good as it used to be, is that the moderation is much more heavy handed and supervisory than it was before. I suspect that, deep down, those in charge here at TC would just rather have people talk more about treos, treo software, treo accessories, etc. than politics because, after all, the more people talk about treo stuff, the more they buy. I understand that you have to pay the bills around here. And I do not blame the mods, they simply are trying to do the best job they can around here based on the edicts of TC policy. They put in a lot of time helping people, and they don't get the recognition that they deserve around here.

    Anyway, its not surprising to me to see discussions of the foleo gone terribly wrong to get shuttled to the off topics forum by TC. Even though we all know that the argument was about the foleo which has its own clearly defined forum. Anyway, arguments like the ones Cupha and Sting were having about the foleo certainly makes treo enthusiasm look bad.

    Mascarading overenthusiastic, or even obsessive opinions about a treo accessory as an "off topic" issue may help cover this up somewhat but the truth of the matter is, this argument simply shows that people can sometimes get a little too worked up about their smartphones, which can sometimes be a bad thing IMO.

    As far as political discussions, while it is a slow time right now, the discourse will certainly pick up as we come down towards the next elections. I suspect that our poor mods who must closely oversee the forum will be working overtime during that time period.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    Thats because the core energy was generated from the senior member clique having an audience here. That same group will lose its core when by themselves without that audience.
    ya -- very very true ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    One of the reasons its not as good as it used to be, is that the moderation is much more heavy handed and supervisory than it was before.
    thankfully, and maybe because its been as you say a quiet time -- I've haven't seen it since I've been back. I could not stay around if it reverted to that.


    ... arguments like the ones Cupha and Sting were having about the foleo certainly makes treo enthusiasm look bad.
    I didn't understand the genesis of all that -- it superficially seemed psychotic and scary to me though.

    (I surely wouldn't want anyone investigating my dark past and posting about my tyranical history -- OK so I was once the CEO of a major Europeon Empire ... it was a long time ago -- get over it !!)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    ya -- very very true ...
    I know...my racing buddies and I were some of the most popular in High School and we had are fraternity in college and we posessed that core energy to our audience and it was gone when by ourselves but as I grew up I realized why a lot of people hated us as some on T/C had issues with that group here that they don't miss. My crew and I would take over the party as any core group would take over a thread and our group would cause problems as other groups on forums create contraversy or argument. I leave to other forums so I can be a little bad sometimes where it is allowed. It doesn't matter how many little colored accredited Treos you have or if you have 2 post to 4000 posts, I treat everyone as equils and they can join the party and I try hard to refrain from argument yet there still may be disagreement, its part of being human...we are mainly here to talk about are devices and share information and help one another if possible...my fraternity days are over, somewhere between now and then I inadvertantly grew up even though I am still an azzhole at times.
    at&t iPhone3G
  14. #14  
    It is good to have a core group of people around, every forum needs that, but when that group is around for the sole purpose of major disruption, then it becomes an issue.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    It is good to have a core group of people around, every forum needs that, but when that group is around for the sole purpose of major disruption, then it becomes an issue.
    Agreed...
    at&t iPhone3G
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    It is good to have a core group of people around, every forum needs that, but when that group is around for the sole purpose of major disruption, then it becomes an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    Agreed...
    specifically -- to whom are you guys referring ???
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I remember "the good old days." They were not that good.... if I remember didn't some members go and form their own forum.... maybe you can visit them there... I hope they stay there....
    I remember the _real_ good old days. I have to say that much like the political rhetoric in the real world, everything the past several years has taken a much harsher and divisive tone. Everything has become about 'conservative' or 'liberal', or 'sides of the aisle'. The only way to make such discussions work is to get beyond the pigeonholing and rhetoric, and discuss. You're in a discussion forum. You're not writing an article for Slate or Fox News. Even if you 'win' the 'argument', what does it matter? The world's problems are not ultimately going to be solved in the Off Topic forum of a smartphone site, so don't take yourself too seriously.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #18  
    @Toby - I know, as most others, that it is very rare to convert someone over to agree with your argument online. But this issue has nothing to do with winning an argument at all. Causing disruption is much different.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    specifically -- to whom are you guys referring ???
    I doubt if anything good would come from providing a list... actually, I doubt if there is a "list" since this was handled more as a forum policy. In other words, we are ALL on the list, but some took it more directly than others. At any rate, the mods have taken care of this issue many blue moons ago... maybe it is time to leave it at that.
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  19. #19  
    Barye, without naming names, this new person who joined and began unraveling things, were they banned or are they still an active member today?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Without getting much into things, it began to come apart when a new person joined the forum who took themselves a little too seriously, a person who lacked sufficient humor, maturity, and perspective to brush off the slights and insults that are a normal part of rambunctious political discussion.
    I don't see who you mean? I don't know of a specific poster causing anything.

    I have been involved in a discussion or two here as well. I think the reason why it has become quiet is simple: Most discussions were about Iraq and whether or not the Bush administration was a good idea. That question has been answered very clearly, the great majority even of US citizens now agree Bush is a loser and electing him was a grave error, so those discussions have come to an end. The Bush and Iraq proponents have gone into hiding.

    Other issues which have been successfully resolved are: global warming (yes), young earth/creationism (no), bible literally true (no), etc., so not much left to discuss in OT...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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