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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    Barye, without naming names, this new person who joined and began unraveling things, were they banned or are they still an active member today?
    during that very bad, unmentionable time, many were banned -- he was I think, among them.

    All the bannings were temporary I believe -- but thankfully he appears to have moved on.

    The ugly interaction and miscommunication was not his fault alone -- but there was something about the dynamic between him and the other side that was positively toxic.

    I personally never had trouble with him -- and he wasn't organically a bad or stupid guy -- but he seemed to lose all perspective in regard to his participation in the forum. He and the other side would have these painful fights that would bleed over to areas even outside OT. Grudges would fester and be remembered, and tiny provocations would re-unleash them.

    Moderators thought they needed to get involved. Most of the active participants thought the intervention was much worse than the problem. A lot of people left. Amongst them were many of the conservatives with whom that person had argued.

    This brief summary is not meant to reopen old wounds. Suffice it to say that it was a very dramatic even emotional period for all those who were a part of the discussions that followed. Tensions remained high for weeks...

    (I hope Phone Diva doesn’t mind my mentioning about how she was an important part of those discussions, and how much I appreciated her contribution then).
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/11/2007 at 03:17 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    I don't see who you mean? I don't know of a specific poster causing anything.

    I have been involved in a discussion or two here as well...
    though you were often an active part of things back then Clulup, I don't remember you being a part of any of the controversy.

    If I recall correctly, you mainly were involved in dicussions on things like evolution, religion, and global warming. (if I PMed you the name though, I'm pretty sure you'd know it).
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/11/2007 at 03:12 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #23  
    I have nothing against these type of OT discussions. I try hard myself to refrain from discussion about politics and religion and other touchy areas of debate because in my experience they almost always lead into a fight and stir up to much emotion. Our we that disconnected in the world where we have nothing else to do but bring all of this drama to a smartphone forum unless this is anyones job for a living why bring this here. There is no use in fighting... a battle on line is a battle that can't be won, and if your a smart person you know not to fight battles you can't win.
    at&t iPhone3G
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    I have been involved in a discussion or two here as well. I think the reason why it has become quiet is simple: Most discussions were about Iraq and whether or not the Bush administration was a good idea. That question has been answered very clearly, the great majority even of US citizens now agree Bush is a loser and electing him was a grave error, so those discussions have come to an end. The Bush and Iraq proponents have gone into hiding.

    Other issues which have been successfully resolved are: global warming (yes), young earth/creationism (no), bible literally true (no), etc., so not much left to discuss in OT...
    exactly. There is much more agreement on these issues now than there was previously, and thats a good thing.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    @Toby - I know, as most others, that it is very rare to convert someone over to agree with your argument online. But this issue has nothing to do with winning an argument at all. Causing disruption is much different.
    I think it has everything to do with the perception of 'winning an argument' (not your post but the real issue at hand, i.e. the perceived lack of quality interaction). The overarching tone of such discussions has been drastically changed (not just here, but in most forums IME). There seem to be three predominating patterns: 1) Site is predominantly 'liberal' and after some token 'disagreement' the dissenters are beaten down and the issue is resolved to the 'liberals'' satisfaction and the dissenters keep their mouths shut or sulk off elsewhere, 2) Same as 1 but insert 'conservative' for 'liberal', or 3) Outspoken extremists on both sides trade personal insults while anyone else who may want to discuss things get caught in the crossfire until the thread is locked.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Other issues which have been successfully resolved are: global warming (yes), young earth/creationism (no), bible literally true (no), etc., so not much left to discuss in OT...
    Having been involved in discussions with you before, I realize this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I find that this idea is somewhat poisonous to rational discussion (that talking about these things on a internet forum 'resolves' them in any meaningful way).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think it has everything to do with the perception of 'winning an argument' (not your post but the real issue at hand, i.e. the perceived lack of quality interaction). .

    I do not agree with you, but that is ok, we can agree to disagree....

    or we may both be right, looking at the same issue from two different angles. I guess it is how you define the "real issue." IMO it was the thread crapping (in other words, everyone is talking about cars and you post about planes – for no good reason), chasing good members away, who go to join "other" forums where they can talk about their toys with other adults, and other disruptive behavior that kills forums (like treating new people like crap)... in other words, you missed one: 4) Forum wreckers.

    This forum is ok now. I did not know it was all the work of one person who got the group disbanned... I hope they come back to get their reward: "Keys to the Forum."
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I do not agree with you, but that is ok, we can agree to disagree....

    or we may both be right, looking at the same issue from two different angles. I guess it is how you define the "real issue." IMO it was the thread crapping (in other words, everyone is talking about cars and you post about planes for no good reason), chasing good members away, who go to join "other" forums where they can talk about their toys with other adults, and other disruptive behavior that kills forums (like treating new people like crap)... in other words, you missed one: 4) Forum wreckers.

    This forum is ok now. I did not know it was all the work of one person who got the group disbanned... I hope they come back to get their reward: "Keys to the Forum."
    I agreed with you theog about that core group being needed with positive interaction but what you mentioned above highlighted in red occurs its a problem . Usually equated from a group with that established forum repour, a $hit load of posts to go with it, equaling an I own the forum mantality.
    at&t iPhone3G
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I do not agree with you, but that is ok, we can agree to disagree....
    Surely, but we should probably be sure that we're clear on what each other are saying if possible.
    or we may both be right, looking at the same issue from two different angles.
    Or looking at completely different issues.
    I guess it is how you define the "real issue."
    I'm just coming at this in the context of the thread, which has BARYE reminiscing about the 'good old days' and lamenting the lack of 'quality debates'. I think it's more societal at the moment. Maybe the next election will allow the 'liberals' to get over their Bush issues, and the 'conservatives' to get over their Clinton issues. Unless of course Hillary gets elected, and then it'll be 4-8 years of the same crap all over.
    IMO it was the thread crapping (in other words, everyone is talking about cars and you post about planes for no good reason), chasing good members away, who go to join "other" forums where they can talk about their toys with other adults,
    I don't recall seeing as much of that (although I must admit to taking a somewhat extended hiatus between getting rid of my last visor and acquiring a Treo).
    and other disruptive behavior that kills forums (like treating new people like crap)... in other words, you missed one: 4) Forum wreckers.
    I'd put forum wreckers into category 3. Most often they get into a religious debate (note that I'm not limiting that term to religion), and then it spills into other topics and eventually forums.
    This forum is ok now. I did not know it was all the work of one person who got the group disbanned... I hope they come back to get their reward: "Keys to the Forum."
    Off Topic seems relatively calm at the moment, but I can't help but think it's only because of the events from the last set of troubles.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10.    #30  
    I'm happy to see the Forum again aflame with passionate debate, and intelligent, well written discussion.

    gojeda welcome. Its good to have a true believing, well spoken conservative join us here in Love Canal's muck.

    Perhaps its the global climate change, or maybe they've been expiring on the streets of Bagdad -- but in any event good conservatives have become increasingly hard to find.

    I fear they someday may become extinct, that they will disappear like the Dodo bird -- and we will that day be the poorer for their absence.

    gojeda --for how long had you read Off Topic, before you could stay quiet no more ??

    As glad as I am to see this place vibrant again, there still is missing one ingredient for me to achieve transcendent happiness:

    humour !!

    Please, at least for BARYE's sake, can we not strive for more irony and wit in our battles ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/11/2007 at 01:20 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I'm happy to see the Forum again aflame with passionate debate, and intelligent, well written discussion.

    gojeda welcome. Its good to have a true believing, well spoken conservative join us here in Love Canal's muck.

    Perhaps its the global climate change, or maybe they've been expiring on the streets of Bagdad -- but in any event good conservatives have become increasingly hard to find.

    I fear they someday become extinct, that they will disappear like the Dodo bird -- and we will that day be the poorer for their absence.

    gojeda --for how long had you read Off Topic, before you could stay quiet no more ??

    As glad as I am to see this place vibrant again, there still is missing one ingredient for me to achieve transcendent happiness:

    humour !!

    Please, at least for BARYE's sake, can we not strive for more irony and wit in our battles ??
    BARYE - I find it funny how you lapse into the third person from time to time. BARYE is not just a person, but a state of mind!!

    LOL thank you Barye. I think your sentiment of "affectionate abrasiveness" is spot on. At the very least, that is what polticially themed discussions should be about.

    I have a 700wx, so I naturally visited the 700wx of Treocentral which, it goes without saying, has been a wonderful resource. It was not until late last week that I availed myself of this particular forum because there was literally nothing going on in the 700wx forum, so my time 'lurking' around has been short.

    Cheers!
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