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  1. tirk's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Simply not going to happen. But......if the current levels of immigration continue......?
    Agreed. Should have been stopped 500 years ago, all those undesirable malcontents...
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by heimlich View Post
    If you install Windows multiple times you will need top contact them to verify you have a genuine copy. It takes less than 5 minutes. I've had to do it before. If you don't like the way Microsoft handles their products then don't use them. If you want to use their products then it is they who control how you use them which is their right since it is thier software.

    NO it does not take a simple 5 minutes!! And there's no reason for them to be so damn controlling over $200+ software. It's just plain control and greed. We have to kiss their just to use software WE paid $200+ for!! I'm sure they get a big ego boost from that!

    I can see them blocking someone from burning the software onto another disk to redistribute, but WHY do we have to beg to reinstall the true software on the same computer??!! All they need to do is the online activation they've been doing and they should know if the software is legit or not. There's no reason to call them!!

    And yes, I avoid most of their stuff due to the Front Page hassles!! But I'm stuck with their expensive OS and Office, and I really dread the day I need to reinstalll!! Other software is more friendly toward home users since they know there's often computer problems and people have to reinstall.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytee View Post
    I admit I use Windows for tasks that I need it for. For those applications I don't, and for alternate platforms on which I don't want to spend money on a licensed OS, I use an alternate free OS.

    If you really have that much problem with Windows, then don't use it. Try out Ubuntu or Fedora. You will lose some interoperability but gain much in value. You can reinstall to your hearts content. You could even help out the software development process, either in code development or in beta testing.

    Be proactive, rather than negative.
    And for those who aren't IT pros, computer experts, etc.... ?
    Linux is barely used by average home users.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidg4781 View Post
    Wow, I didn't know that, about Vista. Is it something a lot of people have had problems with? I really don't frequent PC forums, especially now that I've switched to a Mac, but that seems like a major problem for Microsoft. I've never had any problems in the past when I've had to reinstall and ran out of licenses, and I've done this with Windows XP, Office XP (yeah, it's old, maybe that's why), and Norton SystemWorks. Any of my other software let me install without any kind of activation.

    I guess I stand corrected. Maybe Vista will become more lenient after more people start using it. I'm sure now, a lot of people are pooling their money together to buy one copy and install it on everyone's computer. I could never do that, I'm the kind that I HAVE to have my own copy.
    I think since the keys are in your registry, the other software senses it's the same computer. Windows programs are strange. They can go either way, they may let you, or you may have to call.

    When you reinstalled XP, did you ever reformat the hard drive entirely? Or just install over the old copy? MSFT told me you can install over the old copy over and over. But I think if the hard drive is reformatted, you have to call for a new activation number, at least they did that in my case.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by heimlich View Post
    I hope that MS will do something about this. Palminfocenter and Mr. Tim Caroll are only promoting the thievery of others and if Mr. Tim Caroll is any representation of his fellow citizens then an example should be made out of him. Nothing short of a public stoning and tar and feathering would be appropriate.

    Other side of the coin: If you're a software developer, don't make the software expensive then make people keep paying and/or begging just to use it!! You encourage piracy when you do, right or wrong. That's the way it is!!

    Independent developers are usually not that restrictive and super expensive, so lots of credit to them. It's usually the big guys. But even Adobe allows 3 installs the last time I looked!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #26  
    Maybe it's because the first post in this thread was taken out of context, but it's nearly incomprehensible. I can't tell who said what, what are the poster's thoughts and what is quoted from or attributed to someone else.

    People need to learn that their arguments will be a lot more effective if they're communicated in a coherent, logical way. I don't condone software theft, but I can't begin to form an opinion about this post.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Other side of the coin: If you're a software developer, don't make the software expensive then make people keep paying and/or begging just to use it!! You encourage piracy when you do, right or wrong. That's the way it is!!

    Independent developers are usually not that restrictive and super expensive, so lots of credit to them. It's usually the big guys. But even Adobe allows 3 installs the last time I looked!!
    I saw Windows XP for less than $100 at the store the other day. That doesn't look to be over priced at all.

    Expensive software might encourage piracy but piracy also causes high prices. It works both ways.

    I don't know of any independent developers that have spent five years on a product and not charged for their research and investment, not unless it is opensource.

    Companies that make software aren't guaranteed revenue. The make a product then charge what they think they can get in order to recoup their lost dollars. If the software is a hit they might lower the price accordingly which is usually what happens. So what if their market is only a few people and they spend months on developing it. Should they still sell it for cheap so that people can buy it. Doubt it. The company wont stay in business.

    The days of piracy are numbered. It's only a matter of time till someone develops a method to lock down your computer and the software onto it. Until then keep up your theft scoundrels. I hope you make a living out of it and your children too. May they all be pushed into the streets with the scum of society. Jail would be too dignifying. You should just have everything taken from you and your children so that you all starve to death; branded for the rest of your life.
    Last edited by heimlich; 09/04/2007 at 03:43 PM.
  8. #28  
    I think the OP is a developer and unhappy at the post under the crosses, which is from freakout/Tim Carroll. The OP is against piracy.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    And for those who aren't IT pros, computer experts, etc.... ?
    Linux is barely used by average home users.
    If you don't know how to use a computer then hire someone who does to install linux on your desktop for you. There are always LUGS too that will help out. There are lots of options.

    You could always go to school to learn more about them which might be what the IT person did. It's up to you to decide where to put your money.

    You can just keep spending it on easy-to-use operating systems that are very well designed to support easy-of-use or you can hire someone to teach you how to use something else or you can just pay someone to install something else for you and stay in the dark.

    Just because you are ignorant and don't know how to use a computer does not make it right to steal software. There just is no excuse for theft; well maybe in one extreme case, to save a life.

    The last time I checked computers came with an operating system, usually windows. Is that not the case anymore?
  10. #30  
    For that person who posted the comment saying that piracy brings down prices you have it wrong. Piracy raises the prices of software. They still have R&D to pay for and the money has to come from somewhere.

    You think by making prices really low will get rid of pirates. Wrong. There will be people that think it is ok to steal it then because it is just a few dollars and see nothing wrong with taking only a fe dollars.

    Piracy is wrong plain wrong.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by freakout View Post
    Hiya null. (Tim Carroll here.)



    Ryan Kairer has been PIC's Editor-in-Chief for quite a few years now. I wrote the iPhone-Treo editorial because he asked me to. There are many valid reasons to run such an editorial, the least of which is the fact that the iPhone is and has been touted all over the 'net as a "Treo Killer". (Which, IMHO, it most certainly is not. Apples and Palms... er, oranges.)

    You call the article 'silly' and 'trolling'. Fine: you're entitled to your opinion. But I do notice that you haven't actually singled out any particular part of it. What offended you so greatly? Recall that at the end I concluded that both devices were quite evenly matched. How controversial!

    I am hardly "desperate for attention". I actually find the notion that I seek the attention or approval of anonymous strangers (that I've never met nor never will) to be utterly hilarious. The only attention I want nowadays is from the cute girl I work with. (Who sadly doesn't find the life of an internet hack to be all that impressive. Sniff.)



    Here's some fun facts for you:

    1) Copyright infringement is not theft. Theft would be if I busted into Microsoft's HQ and stole the source code so they could no longer make copies. Not that I'm saying that makes it all A-OK; just that it's a different category of crime.

    2) Microsoft overcharge for Windows. Ridiculously so. A non-crippled version of Vista with all functionality enabled (the Ultimate edition) costs $751 in Australia, the country I'm usually proud to call home. Microsoft's illegal (as found by the U.S. courts) monopoly on the operating system market allows them to charge whatever the hell they like, and if you want to keep up with the technical Joneses and ensure compatibility with 99% of available PC hardware, then you have no choice but to use their product. (Your alternatives are an even-more-expensive Mac, which locks you into Apple software and hardware, or Linux, which is simply not ready for prime-time on the desktop.)

    3) There are more shackles on legitimate Windows users than there are on pirates. Genuine Advantage, Product Activation and the built-in DRM restrictions in Vista are the most egregious. Why would anyone pay for the privelige of putting up with that?

    4) Microsoft recently lowered the price of Windows in China by nearly half as a response to piracy. In an artificially stagnant operating system market where Microsoft has little-to-no competition, piracy is one of Microsoft's only incentives to lower prices to reasonable levels. If you pay for Windows, you should be thanking the pirates: they're helping drive the price of Windows down.

    I'll happily pay for software that is reasonably priced and is not defective by design. Genuine Windows isn't and is, respectively. So I'm not going to pay. Poor ethics? Maybe. But frankly, mate, I couldn't give a **** what you think. I haven't stolen anything from you and nor do I intend to, and I do plenty of charitable work and community service in the "real world" - which I believe more than tips life's moral scales in my favour. But I suppose I'll find out when I meet my maker. If he/she/it actually exists.

    Cheers,

    Tim Carroll
    Associate Writer
    Palminfocenter.com

    P.S. Palminfocenter does not support warez. All those quotes that you linked to were made in the news comments on the site and not actual articles published. As the site notes:
    The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way.
    P.P.S Spamming every thread on PIC - for over two hours - with calls for my firing indicates that perhaps it's not me who is "a troll who is desperate for attention." Just a thought....
    One thing: yes copyright infringement is theft, no way to get around that. It may not be "tangible", but it's still theft. Copying someone else's patented software is definitely theft, and so is "cracking" without paying for legit software licenses.

    But you have some very good points about MSFT's ultra-control over their expensive software. I do think that MSFT can set it prices, BUT the real problem is the one license for the price they're charging. Plus the super control. They are indeed overpriced for what you get out of the experience. They need to loosen up on the restrictions, first and foremost!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by heimlich View Post
    For that person who posted the comment saying that piracy brings down prices you have it wrong. Piracy raises the prices of software. They still have R&D to pay for and the money has to come from somewhere.

    You think by making prices really low will get rid of pirates. Wrong. There will be people that think it is ok to steal it then because it is just a few dollars and see nothing wrong with taking only a fe dollars.

    Piracy is wrong plain wrong.
    Other side of the coin again: Of course there will be cheapos no matter what. BUT I buy all the time lower cost software with less restrictions!! It's a pleasure to not have to beg the developers to reinstall on a crashed or reformatted machine. And I still get the support I need from buying legit software.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by heimlich View Post
    If you don't know how to use a computer then hire someone who does to install linux on your desktop for you. There are always LUGS too that will help out. There are lots of options.

    You could always go to school to learn more about them which might be what the IT person did. It's up to you to decide where to put your money.

    You can just keep spending it on easy-to-use operating systems that are very well designed to support easy-of-use or you can hire someone to teach you how to use something else or you can just pay someone to install something else for you and stay in the dark.

    Just because you are ignorant and don't know how to use a computer does not make it right to steal software. There just is no excuse for theft; well maybe in one extreme case, to save a life.

    The last time I checked computers came with an operating system, usually windows. Is that not the case anymore?
    There's no need for you to make rude comments.
    I thought this was a mature discussion.

    No I don't know how to install Linux properly, or even use it. But I do know how to use a computer. I'm just cannot do the serious operations.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by heimlich View Post
    I saw Windows XP for less than $100 at the store the other day. That doesn't look to be over priced at all.

    Expensive software might encourage piracy but piracy also causes high prices. It works both ways.

    I don't know of any independent developers that have spent five years on a product and not charged for their research and investment, not unless it is opensource.

    Companies that make software aren't guaranteed revenue. The make a product then charge what they think they can get in order to recoup their lost dollars. If the software is a hit they might lower the price accordingly which is usually what happens. So what if their market is only a few people and they spend months on developing it. Should they still sell it for cheap so that people can buy it. Doubt it. The company wont stay in business.

    The days of piracy are numbered. It's only a matter of time till someone develops a method to lock down your computer and the software onto it. Until then keep up your theft scoundrels. I hope you make a living out of it and your children too. May they all be pushed into the streets with the scum of society. Jail would be too dignifying. You should just have everything taken from you and your children so that you all starve to death; branded for the rest of your life.
    They don't even sell XP anymore around here! All I see is Vista.

    If they ever try to lock down machines, there will be such an uproar they will NOT succeed. If you pay for it, you should be able to install whatever you want!

    And your last sentence is extreme for software thieves.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #35  
    Phone Diva:

    Ubuntu is very easy to both install and use. My son uses it on a little (older) laptop that couldn't possibly run Vista. He uses Firefox to surf the web, Thunderbird to get his email, and Openoffice to do his school reports.

    If you have an 'extra' machine lying about, try downloading and install DVD for Ubuntu and give it a whirl. I think you will find that it will install as easily as Windows and the ease of use is similar also.

    Feel free to drop me a PM if you have any difficulties.. I'm sure there are several hundred thousand other Linux 'pros' out there who would also be happy to help if you run into any stumbling block ;-)
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I think since the keys are in your registry, the other software senses it's the same computer. Windows programs are strange. They can go either way, they may let you, or you may have to call.

    When you reinstalled XP, did you ever reformat the hard drive entirely? Or just install over the old copy? MSFT told me you can install over the old copy over and over. But I think if the hard drive is reformatted, you have to call for a new activation number, at least they did that in my case.
    I have never reinstalled XP over an existing old copy. Well, actually, I take that back. I did once and it royally messed up my computer.

    Like I said, it's been done on four different computers and different configurations of each one. I think the original key may keep a record of some piece of hardware and compare it to that each time you install. I installed it a lot of times on one computer, then changed out a sound card or motherboard and had to start calling in.

    Basically when you call, they have no record of anything that has happened with you in the past. At least that's what they told me. They ask if you have it installed on any other computer. You tell them no, and then you read them the number on your screen. They'll read you a long strain of numbers back, you click next, and you're done.

    A few months ago, I thought a hard drive died, and I had to install it on an older one to save my files, then I was going to have to install it again. I asked if they could clear it so I can do those two installs and they said not to worry, just call and everything will be fine.

    And each time, it took less than 5 minutes.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    There's no need for you to make rude comments.
    I thought this was a mature discussion.

    No I don't know how to install Linux properly, or even use it. But I do know how to use a computer. I'm just cannot do the serious operations.
    I didn't mean for my comment to be rude and in no way was it directed at you.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    They don't even sell XP anymore around here! All I see is Vista.

    If they ever try to lock down machines, there will be such an uproar they will NOT succeed. If you pay for it, you should be able to install whatever you want!

    And your last sentence is extreme for software thieves.
    They will lock down machines. The hardware manufacturers and the software developers will team up to lock software to a machine. It's already starting to happen. We are just at the beginning. There wont be much you can do about it either. The lockdown will be in the name of DRM which the government will support. Your car is locked. What seems so unreasonable to have locks on software? Its not really any different.

    I also see a time when there will be an anti-piracy tax to prosecute the pirates. We will all pay for this. We are seeing history repeat itself.

    You might pay for it but you do not own it. It is clearly written what you are paying for before you install it. If you don't agree to those terms do not install. It is not yours to do what you want with it.

    Walmart has XP. I saw it the other day.
  19. #40  
    There's no way that kind of monopoly can go on worldwide!! There will be a big backlash if they try that!! It's anti-consumer and anti-free trade!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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