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  1. #21  
    Ah, then, you, too, subscribe to the commentator's views.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Ah, then, you, too, subscribe to the commentator's views.
    The commentators views are thinly veiled anti-Islam rhetoric. He is not defending western civilization against religious influence, he's protecting the judeo-christianic west, with its Christmas and Easter public holidays, against Islamic influence. He's hate-filled views are far from mine.

    Surur
  3. #23  
    Had his comments not specifically referred to all religion as cancerous, your point might have validity. Alas he did, thus you don't.

    The good news, at least hidden bias is being revealed (to his credit, the commentator was up front about his).
  4. #24  
    Shop, you are falling for the 'thinly veiled part'. I though you were better than that. Its like "I'm not racist. Some of my best friends are black."

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 08/18/2007 at 09:48 AM.
  5. #25  
    His views were not veiled. They were articulated clearly, and fairly succinctly.

    Perhaps you know of a secular version of islam that he does not. Please share with us how those who subscribe to Sharia for themselves take great effort to ensure it is only applied to those who currently, actively follow the faith.
  6. #26  
    In western civilization the application of Sharia law is not what I consider a wise thing to do. As pointed out above, their practices and reactions are not what any of us want to be subjected to. Your daughter, wife, female friends - nothing but property to be done with and dealt with in a manner that you could not get a way with if you were to treat your dog or cat in the same manner.

    To be encouraged to kill, destroy, sentence to death for a slight infringement, to be under a death sentence because of a cartoon, these are not what you are saying we should allow. When the majority of a nation's citizens want something, it is only a matter of time before that happens through the changing of law. The threat that it can and will happen in Europe is real.

    Ben
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The threat that it can and will happen in Europe is real.

    Ben
    This is the crux of the whole argument, and the madness of this thread itself. He is setting up the Sharia law bogeyman to scare people into being afraid of Muslims. You people are falling for it. I think you need to explain why.

    Surur
  8. #28  
    It’s a pretty simple equation. It just requires a basic understanding of the mechanics of democracy and a little extrapolation. Basically:

    F@*ked = Democracy + uncontrolled immigration.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    It’s a pretty simple equation. It just requires a basic understanding of the mechanics of democracy and a little extrapolation. Basically:

    F@*ked = Democracy + uncontrolled immigration.
    Yes, just look what immigration did to America. Disaster I tell you!!!

    Surur
  10. #30  
    Darn! We almost could have shook hands and agreed on something. Just replace "did" with "doing". Hahahahaha
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  11. #31  
    Actually, *this* is the crux of the argument:

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    . When the majority of a nation's citizens want something, it is only a matter of time before that happens through the changing of law
  12. #32  
    And for the record, immigration has been the heartbeat of America. Multiculturalism, though, has given her at murmer, as immigrants are no longer being asked to assimilate. That, in and of itself is not a problem, as the various cultures have much too add. However, the failure to acquaint new citizens with the principles and practices that undergird this republic results in the types of erosions we are experiencing.
  13. #33  
    This is what i think about terrorists-

    If someone hits me, I'm going to hit them back twice as hard.

    This is what I think about religious laws(I.E. sharia)-

    They can kiss my heinie if they think they're going to tell me what to do.

    Religion has zero place in public, and religious people have zero right blabbing about their beliefs to anyone unless they are asked to. I don't care how fanatical you are, you come up to me trying to make me believe in Allah, I'm gonna give you what for.
    I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by fleeing the scene of the accident!
  14. #34  
    immigrants are no longer being asked to assimilate. That, in and of itself is not a problem, as the various cultures have much too add.
    I beg to differ. That’s exactly the problem. With out any ties to bind us what do you have? The balkanization of America that’s what. That’s one of the problems that led to the break up of the Soviet Union. Don’t think it can’t happen here. You got China town and Little Havana over here, Little Haiti over there, not to mention the various other barrios and neighborhoods where a person can pretty much go about their life and not utter a word of English..... and get by.
    Then you have corporate America and their “greed is good” mentality pushing the envelope encouraging outsourcing and ILLEGAL immigration. Not to mention this new North American Union or what ever it’s called ( Mexico, US, and Canada) that absolutely NOBODY vote on. It won’t be long until you don’t have a country anymore, .......just a market place.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  15. #35  
    I think we largely agree. I don't like to see the ghettoes develop, but I do see value in the influx of other music, cuisine, fashion, literary style, etc.

    Another place where we agree is the diminishing effect of corporate (and personal) greed.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I think we largely agree. I don't like to see the ghettoes develop, but I do see value in the influx of other music, cuisine, fashion, literary style, etc.

    Another place where we agree is the diminishing effect of corporate (and personal) greed.
    But are these concerns not just misplaced? Ghettos have existed for ages, and successive waves of immigrants from different locales have replaced the existing residents, who have gone on to join "mainstream society".

    First the Jews, then the Irish, then the Carribeans, then Asians, then the Eastern Europeans etc.

    Just like each generation thinks they invented sex, so each generation think they have a new problem with immigrants and challenges to their culture. Culture is infinitely malleable, and in UK the most popular dish has been curry for many generations now, way ahead of pot roast. And most people dont do any morris dancing either.

    39-44% of UK residents do not believe in God, vs 6% of Americans. Maybe the Christian culture which these right-wing agitators wants to preserve does not even exist.

    Surur
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    You got China town and Little Havana over here, Little Haiti over there, not to mention the various other barrios....
    Yes its a part of American culture...its called diversity and tell you what its not going away so you might as well try to live with it. Its the American way, look at the thriving economic town of Monterey Park, California where most of the street signs in the city are in Chinese, it really does not irk me, I wonder how it could irk you? The strip of Pico Blvd between Beverly Drive and La Cientaga, in LA where Hebrew is spoken and the signs are mostly in Hebrew. Does not bother me, does that bother you? Driving down Federal Blvd on cinco de mayo day in Denver, where there is a sea of mexican as well as american flags and the sound of cumbia band playing at the local park. Does not bother me, in fact I like all of these things. Going into downtown San Jose, where many thousands of Vietnamese people have chosen to live, I enjoy that, I work with many of them and helped a few to get ahead. Many of them are quite successful. I think a lot of immigrants are more hard working than most Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Things are becoming intolerable in Europe. Politicians simply stand by and allow intolerant cultures to steamroll over their civilizations. Come on, folks, lets stop this now.
    As far as muslims, I think instead of pouting and exclaiming how much we hate them, and using all of our energies towards spinning the perception that muslim extremism is mainstream Islam, we should be working with the real mainstream muslim community both here and abroad in positive ways, instead of dropping bombs, (physicial and rhetorical) on them.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Things are becoming intolerable in Europe. Politicians simply stand by and allow intolerant cultures to steamroll over their civilizations. Come on, folks, lets stop this now.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=33c_1187358686
    Who is this guy in the video anyway? His description of Europe and the alleged influence of Islam and Sharia law is such a gross misrepresentation that it is laughable.

    As you may know, e.g. in France it is even forbidden to wear a headscarf in public schools, that tells you how strict separation of religion and state is. Compare that to the US, where some religious weirdos are allowed to dictate which religious dogmas are to be taught in biology classes of public schools. The US are in far greater danger of being taken over by religious fundamentalists with a medieval mindset than Europe by proponents of Sharia law.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #39  
    He's apparently a comedian, who likes to call women in burkha "pepper pots" and mentally ill. I wonder what choice phrase he preserves for nuns.

    In short, he should not be taken seriously.

    Surur
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Yes its a part of American culture...its called diversity and tell you what its not going away so you might as well try to live with it. Its the American way, look at the thriving economic town of Monterey Park, California where most of the street signs in the city are in Chinese, it really does not irk me, I wonder how it could irk you? The strip of Pico Blvd between Beverly Drive and La Cientaga, in LA where Hebrew is spoken and the signs are mostly in Hebrew. Does not bother me, does that bother you? Driving down Federal Blvd on cinco de mayo day in Denver, where there is a sea of mexican as well as american flags and the sound of cumbia band playing at the local park. Does not bother me, in fact I like all of these things. Going into downtown San Jose, where many thousands of Vietnamese people have chosen to live, I enjoy that, I work with many of them and helped a few to get ahead. Many of them are quite successful. I think a lot of immigrants are more hard working than most Americans.


    As far as muslims, I think instead of pouting and exclaiming how much we hate them, and using all of our energies towards spinning the perception that muslim extremism is mainstream Islam, we should be working with the real mainstream muslim community both here and abroad in positive ways, instead of dropping bombs, (physicial and rhetorical) on them.

    You paint a very rosy picture. Hemingway would have been proud. But for every idyllic scene you portray I could counter with a dozen other’s not so idyllic. But in order to keep it short I will simply tell you to just turn on the news.
    Besides, that wasn’t even the point of my post. Preserving a nation and it’s culture encompass so much more and is not even about hating on other people, worrying about this ghetto or that barrio or neighborhood. I’m sorry you didn’t get the point of my post, Since you seem to think it was just a rhetorical bomb. (Although I did enjoy your rather artful sentence).
    Why does it irk me you ask? Well for one thing it’s not conducive to unity. Unity is the most important ingredient in fostering and preserving a society. (Can you say Iraq?) Not! Other reasons to a lessor extent include safety.....cost to the tax payer etc. etc. Can you imagine deciding to live in China and not knowing the language and demanding they accommodate you? They’d laugh you out of the country if they didn’t run you out first.
    For the record, I don’t have a problem with diversity. I wake up every morning....look in the mirror at my black skin and see just how “diverse” I truly am, and love it, thank you. I kiss my Japanese born wife every morning before leaving for work, were I will meet up with my Hispanic best friend. And I’m far from being a “right-wing agitator”. I’m just a proud American who wants to see his country stay that way. Again, it’s not about hating other people. I don’t care what color you are, or what country you came from. Americans come in all colors and nationalities..
    What I have a problem with is others foisting their culture or beliefs on me. or wanting exceptions because of religious beliefs. This goes for the overbearing Christians as well as Muslims. Whatever your religion, keep it personal. And it really doesn’t matter if it’s extreme or mainstream Islam. Keep your personal beliefs to yourself. If you’re Muslim, you can chunk all the rocks you can find at that wall......you can march a million deep in a circle if you want to I don’t care. Just don’t bring it to me. That goes for all the other religions with there endless contradictions. You see the cynic in me views all the major religions like major corporations. Marketing to people to pick and stay with a brand. “Tithe with us,” “the Muslims are going to hell” says Religion x,” make your charitable contribution with us,” “Christians are infidels,” says Religion y. You see, that way they have you branded. They have you, your mind and your tithe for life. Just like Microsoft with Windows. To me organized religion is just an artificial construct designed to control the masses and their money. Just like the government.

    Lastly, you are correct when you said “you will find many immigrants that are more hard working than many Americans”. And your point is? What does that prove? I maintain that the reverse is also true. There are exceptions to every rule and in many instances the exceptions swallow the rule to the point of it being a meaningless rule. Sort of like your statement. About the only thing I got out of it was that it sounded like something George Bush would say.
    Last edited by Iago; 08/23/2007 at 07:52 PM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
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