Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 182
  1. #21  
    Oops, I'm sorry. I thought I was entering into a discussion about the housing and economic markets. Didn't realize that it was a Bushie bashing fest. Carry on.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by john_v View Post
    today is saturday, and its raining, so I can't play outside. Must be Junior's fault.
    Go watch Lil Bush on Comedy Central then.
    at&t iPhone3G
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It is amazing that we insist upon blaming someone else for our mistakes. Incidentally, this is a cycle thing - the housing market and related industries have their ups and downs regardless of who is running the ship. We say the housing market was great under Clinton, but we were entering a slight depression. The economy under Bush has never been stronger. Cycles.

    Ben
    Yes, I do argree with cycles but your probably retired off in Hawaii playing with your Treo, you wouln't notice a !#@! up administration if it hit you.
    at&t iPhone3G
  4.    #24  


    Lots of MBA textbooks include the western translation of the Chinese characters for "crisis" as also meaning "opportunity".

    While I understand that is literally not quite true, its an apt summation to what I see as the way out of this catastrophe.

    About six months ago, after I came onto some extra funds, I approached my lender about paying off about 10 % of my loan, and having my monthly payments reduced accordingly. I reminded him that my loan was at a rate lower than the market -- that it was in his interest to get me to reduce it.

    He politely said that he was willing to allow me to prepay without "penalty" -- but all he could offer was to shorten the payoff term of my loan.

    In early August I called him again. The mortgage crisis was by then getting into the news. I pointed out that loans like mine (no doc, low interest), were trading at a significant discount in the market place.

    Cash short mortgage companies were themselves going bankrupt because of being unable to buy back loans as demanded by their bond holders -- and because they lacked the ability to refinance their pool of lending funds so that they could make more loans.

    Though his company -- the nation’s largest mortgage maker, was reported at that time to be sound, I thought that they were in more trouble than they were willing to admit.

    I made a slightly different offer than the one I made months earlier. In a brief conversation I explained why it was in both our interest to give me an additional 20 % bonus against my loan for every dollar that I'd prepay. (i.e. for every $10,000 I would pay off, I'd get $12,000 in benefit.)

    The mutual advantage of this to me seemed obvious. Enabling their customers (me specifically) to buy back their debt at a comparable discount to which it was already trading at in the market seemed to be simple, elegant solution to a multiplicity of needs. Some debt was being discounted by 50% or more. He politely said it potentially made sense -- but he would have to talk to his regional manager.

    Despite many attempts by me, we've not spoken again.

    Marking the outstanding mortgage debt to its market value is both an accounting requirement and a debtors opportunity. This is particularly true of the millions of exotic ARM mortgages made during the last 2 years -- many many of which are doomed to inevitable foreclosure.

    If the debt can be repriced to reflect its actual current market value (80 % discount ??), many of the distressed homeowners can possibly restructure or refinance their debt sufficiently to keep their homes.

    The same principal would also incentivize cash capable households to act as a reverse resource to their own lenders.

    Yesterday’s NYTimes largely answered why they did not accept my offer:

    “...Under the terms of the loan pools, the decision to modify a mortgage is left to the company that services it. Servicers deal directly with borrowers, taking in monthly mortgage payments and sending them out to the investors in the pools. Most of Countrywide's loans are serviced by its Home Loan
    Servicing unit.

    But Countrywide's servicing unit may have less incentive to help troubled borrowers who are interested in working out their loans, analysts said, because doing so could put the parent company on the hook to buy back a loan....”



    The securitization system that enabled the huge expansion of the pool of cash for home lending, has perversely created a web of contractual dependencies that makes creative solutions nearly impossible.

    A way to rework those contracts is needed. There is therefore, an absolute need for the federal government and congress to get involved.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/25/2007 at 03:03 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post


    Lots of MBA textbooks include the western translation of the Chinese characters for "crisis" as also meaning "opportunity".

    While I understand that is literally not quite true, its an apt summation to what I see as the way out of this catastrophe.

    About six months ago, after I came onto some extra funds, I approached my lender about paying off about 10 % of my loan, and having my monthly payments reduced accordingly. I reminded him that my loan was at a rate lower than the market -- that it was in his interest to get me to reduce it.

    He politely said that he was willing to allow me to prepay without "penalty" -- but all he could offer was to shorten the payoff term of my loan.

    In early August I called him again. The mortgage crisis was by then getting into the news. I pointed out that loans like mine (no doc, low interest), were trading at a significant discount in the market place.

    Cash short mortgage companies were themselves going bankrupt because of being unable to buy back loans as demanded by their bond holders -- and because they lacked the ability to refinance their pool of lending funds so that they could make more loans.

    Though his company -- the nation’s largest mortgage maker, was reported at that time to be sound, I thought that they were in more trouble than they were willing to admit.

    I made a slightly different offer than the one I made months earlier. In a brief conversation I explained why it was in both our interest to give me an additional 20 % bonus against my loan for every dollar that I'd prepay. (i.e. for every $10,000 I would pay off, I'd get $12,000 in benefit.)

    The mutual advantage of this to me seemed obvious. Enabling their customers (me specifically) to buy back their debt at a comparable discount to which it was already trading at in the market seemed to be simple, elegant solution to a multiplicity of needs. Some debt was being discounted by 50% or more. He politely said it potentially made sense -- but he would have to talk to his regional manager.

    Despite many attempts by me, we've not spoken again.

    Marking the outstanding mortgage debt to its market value is both an accounting requirement and a debtors opportunity. This is particularly true of the millions of exotic ARM mortgages made during the last 2 years -- many many of which are doomed to inevitable foreclosure.

    If the debt can be repriced to reflect its actual current market value (80 % discount ??), many of the distressed homeowners can possibly restructure or refinance their debt sufficiently to keep their homes.

    The same principal would also incentivize cash capable households to act as a reverse resource to their own lenders.

    Yesterday’s NYTimes largely answered why they did not accept my offer:

    “...Under the terms of the loan pools, the decision to modify a mortgage is left to the company that services it. Servicers deal directly with borrowers, taking in monthly mortgage payments and sending them out to the investors in the pools. Most of Countrywide's loans are serviced by its Home Loan
    Servicing unit.

    But Countrywide's servicing unit may have less incentive to help troubled borrowers who are interested in working out their loans, analysts said, because doing so could put the parent company on the hook to buy back a loan....”



    The securitization system that enabled the huge expansion of the pool of cash for home lending, has perversely created a web of contractual dependencies that makes creative solutions nearly impossible.

    A way to rework those contracts is needed. There is therefore, an absolute need for the federal government and congress to get involved.
    This is almost a scary article... wow, on many levels...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/bu...&ex=1188360000
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Lots of MBA textbooks include the western translation of the Chinese characters for "crisis" as also meaning "opportunity".
    I don't recall seeing that in any textbook in my business school days. Perhaps you meant to refer to the old saw floating around at least since JFK that the symbol for 'crisis' was the combination of the symbols for 'opportunity' and 'threat'?

    Cheers. May you live in interesting times...
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Presidents are unbelievably influential to the performance of the national economy.

    The Clinton Prosperity is an excellent example.

    Clinton became President in part because of Ross Perot's campaign to publicize raygun & daddy bush's horrific budget deficit.

    Clinton resisted democratic pleas to increase spending on pet projects, while he increased taxes on america's wealthiest (in spite of GOP predictions that this would cause a depression.)

    In a few years this lead to a reversal that most thought was impossible: a national budget surplus.

    Despite full employment and booming growth, inflation was tame and the Fed felt empowered to lower interest rates to unremembered levels.

    The dollar was strong (a Euro was worth $.80), and crime even went down as more jobs became available in the inner cities.
    Ahh yes... the Clinton prosperity

    Why no mention of the glorious housing industry during the Carter years
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    Ahh yes... the Clinton prosperity

    Why no mention of the glorious housing industry during the Carter years
    I know about the Volker housing recession -- its a searing memory I'm sure, for most anyone who had wanted to buy or sell back then.

    Interest rates went to something like 20%, ??

    Housing wasn't even the target -- but it sure was the victim...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    This is almost a scary article... wow, on many levels...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/bu...&ex=1188360000
    reading about how they knowingly took advantage desperate home buyers was a bit of a revelation.

    I knew that other mortgage companies had done that -- but since Countrywide had actually treated me real well, I'd hoped that my experience was more the rule.

    Perhaps I'll write more later about my specific experience.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10.    #30  
    Wall Street was down big again today -- in large part because people learned today how dumb -- how bricked brained, was junior's Fed Reserve.

    Though inflation is tiny at about 2%, Fed members were uniformly worried not about the cratering housing and bond markets -- but about inflation.

    It would have been much less worriesome if they had blamed fears of a collapsing dollar for their unwillingness to lower interest rates...


    ...after the release of downbeat economic data and the minutes of the Federal Open Market Committee's Aug. 7 policy-setting meeting, at which members remained focused on inflation risks rather than the widening impact of credit problems.

    The minutes "disappointed investors who were looking for signs that the Fed was more actively considering policy responses to a change in conditions seen more probable than outlined," said Tony Crescenzi, chief fixed-income strategist at Miller Tabak & Co. in a report.

    The minutes revealed no sign of disagreement among policymakers that inflation remained the number one threat at the time. Members agreed a further deterioration in financial conditions "could not be ruled out and, to the extent such a development could have an adverse effect on growth prospects, might require a policy response."

    ..."Market participants are disappointed about the fact that there wasn't even a small minority seeking a shift to a neutral policy stance, let alone an aggressive approach to dealing with the brewing credit crisis," Crescenzi wrote...
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/28/2007 at 05:17 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #31  
    Subprime Lender New Century Files For Bankruptcy

    http://www.ktvu.com/money/11494679/detail.html

    With Wachovia's plan to buy A.G. Edwards and letting over 4000 go... 2000 to 2600 of Wachovia's people in Richmond found out today they were getting the ax. Along with the 3200 who lost their jobs at new century, that was 5200 to 5800 people who found out today they were not going to have a job soon.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  12. #32  
    The good news is that if the Dems happen to take office, they'll have an excellent opportunity to showcase their self proclaimed talents.

    I for one am excited!
  13. ktm97's Avatar
    Posts
    341 Posts
    Global Posts
    392 Global Posts
    #33  
    I figure it's the Senators fault from idaho that was playing footsy with an undercover cop, then reaching his hand underneath the stall for a campaign contribution.
  14. #34  
    The fault lies with mortgage industry which has been largely unregulated for decades. These people control the money (so to speak) and the public makes one of the largest desicions of their lives based on their advise or lack of it. Until recently they didn't even need a liscense to be a mtg broker. (mind blowing!) Any ***** with a computer could set up shop. There are positive changes being made and whether Bayre wants to admit it or not, they were set in place before the Dems took a seat. On a side note nothing was done or even considered during the Clinton years.

    To some degree the plublic themselves are to blame for irresponsible borrowing. However there is a large portion that can only be blamed on predatory lending. Think of the senior citizens who refinanced in order to obtain equity for the purpose of making their home more handicap accesible who now face payments that are doubling and no way to stop it. I can't tell you how many clients I had that were sold on option ARM loans and had no idea of the potential for this. The ugly was always glossed over with "you wont ever have to worry about that, we'll get you a new loan long before that happens" luckily I was able to re-educate some of them.

    Option ARM loans are a fantastic product for the wealthy and/or those in transition. Unfortunately most of them were used to qualify the unqualified this can only be blamed on the greed of the mtg industry itself. Unfortunately the price will be paid by the public both the foolish and educated alike.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    The fault lies with mortgage industry which has been largely unregulated for decades. These people control the money (so to speak) and the public makes one of the largest desicions of their lives based on their advise or lack of it. Until recently they didn't even need a liscense to be a mtg broker. (mind blowing!) Any ***** with a computer could set up shop. There are positive changes being made and whether Bayre wants to admit it or not, they were set in place before the Dems took a seat. On a side note nothing was done or even considered during the Clinton years.

    To some degree the plublic themselves are to blame for irresponsible borrowing. However there is a large portion that can only be blamed on predatory lending. Think of the senior citizens who refinanced in order to obtain equity for the purpose of making their home more handicap accesible who now face payments that are doubling and no way to stop it. I can't tell you how many clients I had that were sold on option ARM loans and had no idea of the potential for this. The ugly was always glossed over with "you wont ever have to worry about that, we'll get you a new loan long before that happens" luckily I was able to re-educate some of them.

    Option ARM loans are a fantastic product for the wealthy and/or those in transition. Unfortunately most of them were used to qualify the unqualified this can only be blamed on the greed of the mtg industry itself. Unfortunately the price will be paid by the public both the foolish and educated alike.

    I don't really disagree much with much of what you wrote.

    Though the same opportunities for mortgage abuse existed before junior seized power, the problem undeniably arose while he was in charge.

    As I've said earlier, his was an actively laissez faire administration -- they consciously did nothing about problems rather than intervene. Their ideology of the "marketplace" will solve everything made them hostile to even existing agencies like FANNY MAE.

    The Treasury dept. had AMPLE info about the way that ARMs were being shoved out by brokers only interested in their fees (and not the consequences) -- but did NOTHING.

    The Fed did NOTHING.

    People who, as you wrote, who were sweet talked into predatory loans will become homeless -- and they will still do NOTHING.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/29/2007 at 03:11 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #36  
    The problem did not arise while bush was in office. The lending has been the way it is for quite some time. The difference is that appreciation always corrected most of its sins. The effects of anything in this industry take time. Now it is coming to head so to speak as there isn't any appreciation to offset the symptoms. Which by the way has taken almost two yrs of virtually no apprecaition to do so.

    I still believe the mtg industry has an interest in correcting istelf.

    The problem now is that most solutions to date while they may have positive long term effects will contribute to the symptoms being felt today.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    The problem did not arise while bush was in office. The lending has been the way it is for quite some time. The difference is that appreciation always corrected most of its sins. The effects of anything in this industry take time. Now it is coming to head so to speak as there isn't any appreciation to offset the symptoms. Which by the way has taken almost two yrs of virtually no apprecaition to do so.

    I still believe the mtg industry has an interest in correcting istelf.

    The problem now is that most solutions to date while they may have positive long term effects will contribute to the symptoms being felt today.
    my understanding is that while the rules may have already existed that allowed for what has happened before junior took office (yes there were ARMs, yes there were brokers for mortgages)-- the abuse of the system, its total disconnect from the consequences for prospective borrowers being (knowingly) utterly incapable of handling the effects of the loans they were encouraged to accept -- was absolutely the responsibility of this current "government".


    (btw-- it sounds like you may know much more than me about the arcane specifics of the mortgage industry)
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/29/2007 at 03:10 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  18. #38  
    I have been in the Real Estate industry for quite some time. My family has been for over 3 decades.

    These problems are nothing new and are no more the fault of the current administration than that of those house flipping shows on TV.

    The seeds have been planted for quite some time and are simply bearing fruit. To blame this fiasco entirely on the Bush admin is completely irresponsible.

    That being said.. Do I think the Gov should regulate more closely? Yes! Do I think they have been taking steps? However incremental they may be... Yes!
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    ...The seeds have been planted for quite some time and are simply bearing fruit. To blame this fiasco entirely on the Bush admin is completely irresponsible.

    That being said.. Do I think the Gov should regulate more closely? Yes! Do I think they have been taking steps? However incremental they may be... Yes!
    ("irresponsible" happens to be my middle name... )

    What have they done -- what are these "steps" ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/29/2007 at 03:25 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    ("irresponsible" happens to be my middle name... )

    What have they done -- what are these "steps" ??
    To be honest I am not sure if most are Fed or State. I suspect State. The first step taken was the implementation of the "truth in lending statement". However this has little effect at present as there is NO accountability. The next which leads to accountability is the requirement of liscensure. Still little effect as one doesn't need to much to obtain it and still virtually NO legal accountability. As I understand it, the requirements for liscensure are slowly becoming more adequate. As they control the key ingredient $$ I think nothing short requiring them to be bonded will be enough. It's a wild organization that will take time to coral but I belive that eventually all of the baby steps will by and large better proctect the public and create a healthier environment and foundation for Real Estate as a whole.

    This current fiasco will hopefully have the biggest effect, as the public should learn from it. "School of hard knocks" if you will.
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions