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  1.    #1  
    Like him or not, juice or no juice he did it. Who here thinks he's juicing it?

    Hit no. 756


    Last edited by KStewart; 08/08/2007 at 12:24 AM.
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  2. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #2  



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  3. #3  
    Hate to say it, but steroids don't allow you to hit that many home runs....

    At any rate, he is not taking anything now, and at his age, he is still making a fairly good batting average. Any argument there? lol... no, did not think so....

    Has he ever taken anything? Well, I don't know... maybe... personally, it is like asking me if OJ killed those people. Hell, I was not there, how should I know. He might have... someone on this forum might have did it.... who knows.

    Although, my uncle thinks dude was taking something based on the before and after pictures when he was younger. Only problem is that we all tend to change as we get older, and put on more weight. About the only set of pictures of can look and say for sure someone did something is Michael Jackson...
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  4. #4  
    Barroid Bonds has done more juice than you can squeeze out of an orange orchard.

    Hell, if Aaron did steroids, he'd have hit 1000 home runs or more.

    756 is a feat, but I don't consider it among the greats since Bonds clearly resorted to egregious cheating to achieve it. Those pics above are exhibit A.

    The single season record 73 home runs was 24 more than his individual best, and it also came AFTER 35 years of age, during a period where a player's numbers usually decline. Bonds represents the WWF that is baseball today. Aaron is still the authentic home run king in my book.

    A-rod should have bonds' bogus record broken in 6-7 years' time.
    I'd consider him, at least to be the next bona fide home run king since it seems he is playing the game the old fashioned way - naturally.
  5. #5  
    Another point, if Bonds didn't juice, then why won't his trainer and his good friend who worked for BALCO testify in the steroid investigation, hmm? Why would he rather do prison time than testify? Please.

    We don't have the hard evidence yet, but come on, its maddeningly obvious.

    Steroids don't suddenly bestow one with the ability to hit home runs, but they allow you to hit MORE home runs if you've already got the ability..

    Case in point .....Jose Canseco
  6. #6  
    Hey even if he juiced, which we all know he did, its still an amazing feat. I don't condone it, but he hasn't been found guilty, so let him have it until AROD breaks it.
  7. Crimson's Avatar
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    #7  
    Its amazing the # of apologists we have here. I'm just wondering if it came out that Jeff Gordon had been using some sort of device on his car giving him 20 extra HP over everyone else and he had been running it for the past 10 years, if they would say thats OK. Yeah it still takes talent to win with 20 extra horsepower, but it sure makes it a hell of a lot easier. And thats basically what Bonds has done. What % of his HR's would have been caught before they won't out without the extra 40% bulk steroids has provided?
  8. #8  
    Best quote I saw was along the lines of "Bonds did it on juice, Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer".

    Sure, maybe it's circumstantial evidence on Bonds so far, but he hasn't done much to help his case and the court of public opinion has a lower burden of proof. He should always have an asterisk by his name since juicing is intentional cheating just like a corked bat.

    As much as I dislike A-Rod, I can't wait for him to break the record and restore some dignity to what has been the most hallowed record in baseball - something that Ruth and Aaron fully earned and represented with integrity.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  9. #9  
    Here's an interesting article that suggests that Bonds may have benefited from his elbow guard.
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1003621797
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Barroid Bonds has done more juice than you can squeeze out of an orange orchard.
    In addition to players, baseball owners who profit from steroid-induced hitting while they look the other way should also be held accountable. Case in point:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1985653

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04023/264746.stm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080100739.html
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Hate to say it, but steroids don't allow you to hit that many home runs....
    I believe you will find the added mass and strength will assist one in getting that ball over the wall.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    In addition to players, baseball owners who profit from steroid-induced hitting while they look the other way should also be held accountable. Case in point:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1985653

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04023/264746.stm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080100739.html
    Case in point here, case in point there. All around the league are cases in point. All of baseball should be held accountable. Its no longer MLB its the WWF. Its ridiculous.

    I believe BALCO has provided a large majority of baseball players as well as other sports with performance-enhancing drugs. Ive got a feeling this is why BALCO employees would rather do prison time than reveal their true involvement all around the world of sports. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I think if anyone is found guilty of using this stuff, any individual records they hold should be stripped, and denied the hall of fame. If Pete Rose is denied the hall because of a gambling habit, then BY GOD these drug abusers should have the doors slammed in their faces as well.

    Any managers or organizations who have turned blind eyes to these situations should be fined AND replaced with new management. Period.
    Last edited by treobk214; 08/08/2007 at 11:00 AM.
  13. #13  
    www.boycottbarry.com

    He is a cheater, plain and simple.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    All of baseball should be held accountable. Its no longer MLB its the WWF. Its ridiculous. There are cases in point ALL over the league. Bonds is only the most well-known at the present time.

    I believe BALCO has provided a large majority of baseball players as well as other sports with performance-enhancing drugs. I think if anyone is found guilty of using, any individual records they hold should be stripped.

    Any managers or organizations who have turned blind eyes to these situations should be fined heavily or replaced with new management and placed on probation. Period.
    I agree with you and think its pretty disingenuous just to scapegoat one group of people, while leaving others off the hook. Its easy to attack individual players and BALCO. But the players and their trainers would not be doing their dirty deeds if they weren't responding to an opportunity of making more money, Who is in charge of setting salaries and who is in charge of promoting ticket sales and revenues? Who is making the use of steroids a money making business? Its the owners. Owners like George Bush, and a whole cadre of others. You really think we can touch them thru fines? Hah! thats a laugh.

    I love baseball, the game, the history everything about it, but money, greed and steroids are ruining the sport. If you want to make an impact to change it, then it can only take place in the ticket booth and merchandise sales. Stop going to the professional games, stop buying the merchandise. Its called tough love. Send pro baseball to its room for a while to think about it. Keep the real spirit of baseball alive by participating yourself in amateur leagues and supporting baseball in your local schools. Pro baseball is not going to change until its in their own economic interest to change.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 08/08/2007 at 03:42 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    ...Hell, if Aaron did steroids, he'd have hit 1000 home runs or more.
    ...
    Other guys who's appearances give credibility to accusation have not produced the same results as Bonds.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
    Its amazing the # of apologists we have here. I'm just wondering if it came out that Jeff Gordon had been using some sort of device on his car giving him 20 extra HP over everyone else and he had been running it for the past 10 years, if they would say thats OK. Yeah it still takes talent to win with 20 extra horsepower, but it sure makes it a hell of a lot easier. And thats basically what Bonds has done. What % of his HR's would have been caught before they won't out without the extra 40% bulk steroids has provided?
    If there's anything that I care less about than baseball, it's NASCAR. Now if I find out that another player had access to hole-cams, that might upset me a little. Out of curiosity, has Hank Aaron weighed in on this yet? If he's not upset about it, I'm not sure why anyone else should be.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #17  
    A-Rod was totally juiced, they were all juicing. That's why I believe it is unfair to focus so much on Bonds. People act like they are so hurt and cheated when they find out athletes are doing steriods. How does it really affect us?

    I do agree that cheating is cheating, but the guy is one out of 100's that were doing steriods.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I believe you will find the added mass and strength will assist one in getting that ball over the wall.
    You are better off talking about tech stuff....

    You have TONS of guys on "juice" playing, but they don't hit a massive amount of home runs.

    Toby, a device on a car is a little different.... yea, aaron is not saying much, but he did send his congrats via a board.

    I think anyone with any sense, will see that bonds has all the talent in the world and you don't know if he had any juice or not. My guess is, if baseball was sure, bonds would be another Rose or like NFL member, Vick (off for season -- well, for a while anyway).

    When steroids improve eyesight and timing, I'll be all over it... maybe I'll be able to give up my glasses.

    Although, your best argument would be that the juice allowed him to play longer than he might have... that argument would make more sense. As I said though, there are people on both sides, I think it is good to just enjoy the moment and let baseball decide baseball... if they don't know, then I'm sure no one on this board knows....
    Last edited by theog; 08/08/2007 at 01:32 PM.
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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23 View Post
    People act like they are so hurt and cheated when they find out athletes are doing steriods. How does it really affect us?
    I will allow someone else more qualified than me to explain to you how this affects us.

    "Persistent reports of anabolic steroid abuse by professional athletes, many of whom are regarded as role models by young people, highlight the fact that we are now facing a very damaging message in our society—that bigger is better, and being the best is more important than how you get there.

    Abuse of anabolic steroids differs from the abuse of other illicit substances because the initial abuse of anabolic steroids is not driven by the immediate euphoria that accompanies most drugs of abuse, such as cocaine, heroin, and marijuana, but by the desire of abusers to change their appearance and performance, characteristics of great importance to adolescents. The effects of steroids can boost confidence and strength, leading abusers to overlook the potential serious and long-term damage that these substances can cause.

    While anabolic steroids can enhance certain types of performance or appearance, they are dangerous drugs, and when used inappropriately they can cause a host of severe, long-lasting, and in some cases, irreversible negative health consequences. Anabolic steroids can lead to early heart attacks, strokes, liver tumors, kidney failure, and serious psychiatric problems. In addition, because steroids are often injected, users who share needles or use nonsterile techniques when they inject steroids are at risk for contracting dangerous infections, such as HIV/AIDS and hepatitis B and C.

    I hope that students, parents, teachers, coaches, and others will take advantage of the information about anabolic steroids found on the NIDA Web site (www.steroidabuse.gov) and join us in our prevention and education efforts. Participating in sports offers many benefits, but young people and adults should not take unnecessary health risks in an effort to win."

    from Nora D.Volkow, M.D.
    Director
    National Institute on Drug Abuse
    National Institutes of Health (NIH)

    http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchRep...cSteroids.html
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    You are better off talking about tech stuff....

    You have TONS of guys on "juice" playing, but they don't hit a massive amount of home runs.
    Agreed, Bonds has great hand/eye coordination and thus can make contact with the ball. That does not nor did it for Bonds, translate to home runs until he started using roids to the point his hat and shoes increased by three sizes.
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