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  1. NRG
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       #1  
    And Libby's jail sentence was excessive.
    Source: http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/07...-rita-sentence


    Bush Filed a Motion Last Year to Uphold the 33-Month Sentence of Victor Rita, a 24-Year Marine Corps Vet Convicted on Same Crimes as Libby


    Posted by Jon Ponder | Jul. 4, 2007, 4:41 pm
    Last month, the Supreme Court agreed with the Bush Justice Dept., ruling against Rita’s appeal for a reduced sentence based his exemplary military service.

    -snip-
  2. #2  
    The "excessiveness" is judged based on proximity to the President, not on the severity of the crime. But you know that.
  3. #3  
    I heard a lawyer on a talk radio program (highly reliable witness, right ) say that Libby's sentence exceeded the recommendation o the department of the corrections. I have not been able to confirm that.

    Anyone else hear that?

    Reading the paragraph below (from the article) reminded me of that claim:
    By a vote of 8 to 1, the court held that, even though it recently ruled that the sentencing ranges set by the U.S. Sentencing Commission are no longer mandatory, judges who follow them may be presumed to have acted reasonably…
    Commuting Mr. Libby's sentence may have been hypocritical on some levels, but I wonder if this particular issue is one of them.
  4. #4  
    Lest some perceive my previous comment as a rationalization, please be aware that I believe the polarization of our nation occurs as discussions occur in the hyperbolic realm rather than at the fact level.
  5. NRG
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Lest some perceive my previous comment as a rationalization, please be aware that I believe the polarization of our nation occurs as discussions occur in the hyperbolic realm rather than at the fact level.
    So true.
  6. NRG
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I heard a lawyer on a talk radio program (highly reliable witness, right ) say that Libby's sentence exceeded the recommendation o the department of the corrections. I have not been able to confirm that.

    Anyone else hear that?

    Reading the paragraph below (from the article) reminded me of that claim:


    Commuting Mr. Libby's sentence may have been hypocritical on some levels, but I wonder if this particular issue is one of them.
    On an average, perjury is 28.5, so says this site. I think this is about right.

    False Statement, 18 U.S.C. §1001(a)(2)

    Average prison sentence: 11.82 months

    Obstruction of Justice, 18 U.S.C. §1503

    Average prison sentence: 46.33 months

    Perjury, 18 U.S.C. §1623

    Average prison sentence: 28.50 months

    Source: http://ragingred.wordpress.com/2007/...-is-excessive/
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    And Libby's jail sentence was excessive.
    What I find even more outrageous (as a vet myself) is his record in the military:

    Victor Rita is a very sympathetic defendant: he served 24 years in the Marine Corps, had tours of duty in Vietnam and the first Gulf war, and has received over 35 military metals and awards. Also, he is an elderly gentleman who suffers serious health problems.
    Just when I started calming down about this I read something like this about yet another transgression by the chickenhawk Bush administration against vets.

    That said, if Rita did the crime and was convicted he should do the time. I just don't know how Bush can look himself in the mirror every morning though - he has to know that this looks very bad. Commuting a fellow chickenhawk that never served and placing more value in his political career over a man who served in two wars.
  8. #8  
    Clinton looked at himself in the mirror for almost as long. I know it is off topic; however, if you blast Bush (I firmly believe he deserves it), remember to blast the other guys too. You just gotta if you believe in the Fairness Doctrine.

    Ben
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ...Commuting a fellow chickenhawk that never served and placing more value in his political career over a man who served in two wars.
    That was my first reaction as well. Then I realized that this was not about Rita and Libby. It is about precendence. Libby's scenario represents a single case. Rita's represents case law.

    I think it is important to preserve the principle that sentences within the guildlines are assumed to be non-excessive. That notwithstanding, it appears Rita's circumstances warrant a reduction a la that granted to Libby. Such an action should be occur as a discrete event, a la Libby, not as a ruling from Supreme Court.
  10. NRG
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Clinton looked at himself in the mirror for almost as long. I know it is off topic; however, if you blast Bush (I firmly believe he deserves it), remember to blast the other guys too. You just gotta if you believe in the Fairness Doctrine.

    Ben
    Clinton? Are you serious Ben?

    1) Clinton is not in office
    2) Bush is in office
    3) The question is, was this a case of "Bush Hypocrisy?" Well, was it Ben?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    Clinton? Are you serious Ben?

    1) Clinton is not in office
    2) Bush is in office
    3) The question is, was this a case of "Bush Hypocrisy?" Well, was it Ben?
    He is serious. He must be....that is all he talks about.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Clinton looked at himself in the mirror for almost as long. I know it is off topic; however, if you blast Bush (I firmly believe he deserves it), remember to blast the other guys too. You just gotta if you believe in the Fairness Doctrine.

    Ben
    Whose sentence did Clinton commute with Zero time served?
  13. #13  
    A Google search - all of us are capable of it will show several interesting names. He commuted 61 sentences and 396 pardons. Bush?

    Ben
  14. #14  
    which criminally tried and convicted member of his administration did Clinton pardon ??

    Did Clinton pardon any officials who were on their way to jail where they could have been reasonably foreseen to feel pressure to trade testimony against other members of his cabinet to attain release ??

    junior commuted the jail sentence of a potential witness to criminal behavior by both him and his puppet string pulling VP. If that is not obstruction of justice -- what is ???

    This is someone who as a governor almost certainly allowed wrongly convicted, genuinely innocent people to be executed in Texas rather than "interfere" in the judicial process.

    Sometimes the talent for moral gymnastics of the "righteus right" is beyond even my high expectations.


    (...yes that BARYE)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    A Google search - all of us are capable of it will show several interesting names. He commuted 61 sentences and 396 pardons. Bush?

    Ben
    Which ones had zero (as in 0) time served??
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Sometimes the talent for moral gymnastics of the "righteus right" is beyond even my high expectations.
    LOL Now that about sums it up for me right there.
  17. NRG
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    A Google search - all of us are capable of it will show several interesting names. He commuted 61 sentences and 396 pardons. Bush?

    Ben
    Ben, this did not answer my question. "Was the Bush admin hypocritical". Your silence so far is very telling.
  18. #18  
    Here is an interesting question: if by some miracle congress were ever able to gain access to the evidence and get the real story - the one Libby lied about to hide the truth, hence the obstruction of justice conviction - and found that Bush and Cheney were directly involved, could this commutation end up being considered a criminal act as well?

    To Ben....I know I know...let me save you the key strokes....Clinton this and Clinton that.
  19. #19  
    The telling silence - guys, I am no where near the mainland - morning for me is afternoon or evening in many cases for others...in addition, I do not necessarily read everything...

    Anyway, I grant that Bush has had problems. I grant that his vice president is a strong willed person. I grant that Clinton was a crook and lied under oath and tried to get other people to lie for him. I grant that Hillary has no recollection of anything of value. I grant that Gore cannot tell the truth about anything, whether it be the weather, his hours, his finances, his minerals, his...you know. I grant that Ted Kennedy cannot remember if he swam or not. I grant that John Kerry has a memory problem and probably should take a supplement. I grant that most of guys say you want the fairness doctrine but in reality to not. I grant that you believe everyone wants to be liberal, but if that were so, Air America would not have gone bankrupt so quickly. I know that everyone here wants the government to do the health care thing and points to Europe on how well it does, and yet no one acknowledges the real fact that places such as England has to increasingly import its doctors and that bunches of those doctors are from one of the nine or so medical training centers in Saudi Arabia and that recently a bunch of those doctors tried to blow up nice little English people. I grant that Nancy and group have no credibility with the people and as a result are working very hard to regain their credibility by jumping this and jumping that - making them look even more foolish. I grant that the majority of democrat legislators vote the party ticket and not how the majority of their constituants want them to (Hawaii is a big thing on this issue), I grant that the republicans are almost as bad and are not angels themselves. I grant that Bush is not the most popular president and his efforts to shove the immigration bill down our throats was down right disgusting. I grant that the worst modern day president is Jimmy Carter and he wants to save the world so that Gore can save us all. I grant that Greenland (or was it Iceland) was recently found to have been warm bunches of thousands of years ago, proving that global warming is a cycle thing. I grant that an active volcano makes the pollution China is putting out to be nothing in comparison.

    I grant...

    Ben
  20. #20  
    I grant...? What about simply.....I give? hahahaha
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