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  1.    #1  
    How to NOT Hire an American

    Speaks for itself and it's disgusting.
  2. #2  
    Disgusting, indeed!
  3. #3  
    Having done hiring for 10 years back on the mainland, I was all ready schooled on the requirements. The packaging here really bothers me. Its emphasis just plain stinks.
  4. #4  
    Immigration laws are just plain stupid if you ask me. A legal immigrant who pays taxes is asked to do a whole bunch of stupid things to become a resident of the US. One of those things is to find an employer that not only is willing to sponsor an H1b visa, which is not easy at all, but also make sure that this person will get a job because no other American can perform this job. WTF?? Who are they looking for? Rocket Scientists or what? So pretty much not only this legal immigrant worker has to be a really skillful worker, but a lawyer (whose service costs a lot of money) needs to be able to find a way to somehow manage to make this worker look extremely qualified so that a permanent residence gets approved. After that this legal immigrant worker will have to wait about 8 years to finally become a US resident.

    In the meantime, illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, steal real jobs from legal immigrants and Americans, are most of the time way less educated than legal immigrants, their children are usually involve in gangs and give a bad reputation to all immigrants in general. However, they seem to be the ones that demand the most from the government.

    So yeah, it sounds bad, but they have no other choice until immigration laws are more reasonable for legal immigrants who are looking to become permanent residents of the US.

    Al
    Last edited by TreoRock; 06/24/2007 at 02:19 AM.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo View Post
    Immigration laws are just plain stupid if you ask me. A legal immigrant who pays taxes is asked to do a whole bunch of stupid things to become a resident of the US. One of those things is to find an employer that not only is willing to sponsor an H1b visa, which is not easy at all, but also make sure that this person will get a job because no other American can perform this job. WTF?? Who are they looking for? Rocket Scientists or what? So pretty much not only this legal immigrant worker has to be a really skillful worker, but a lawyer (whose service costs a lot of money) needs to be able to find a way to somehow manage to make this worker look extremely qualified so that a permanent residence gets approved. After that this legal immigrant worker will have to wait about 8 years to finally become a US resident.

    In the meantime, illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, steal real jobs from legal immigrants and Americans, are most of the time way less educated than legal immigrants, their children are usually involve in gangs and give a bad reputation to all immigrants in general. However, they seem to be the ones that demand the most from the government.

    So yeah, it sounds bad, but they have no other choice until immigration laws are more reasonable for legal immigrants who are looking to become permanent residents of the US.

    Al
    That pretty much sums it up and have many points I can't agree with more
  6. #6  
    at&t iPhone3G
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoobastank68 View Post
    That pretty much sums it up and have many points I can't agree with more
    Pardon? Employers have no other choice other than to avoid hiring Americans?
  8. #8  
    Hiring someone with a H1B visa has some advantages over hiring a US Citizen with the same qualifications.

    The main advantage concerns what happens when the employee with the H1B is fired. The H1B is for the job, so the H1B goes away with the job. This leaves the former employee only a few days to find a new H1B qualified job or risk deportation.

    To unscrupulous employers, this allows a form of indentured servitude. These employers can offer lower wages and benefits, poorer working environment and longer working hours. The H1B employee choice is to accept what ever is offered or be deported.

    Compared to the salaries and rights that a US citizen is afforded, the H1B presents a great opportunity to US corporations.

    IMO, the big pushes to get more H1B's that are seen in Congress are more about what I said above rather than a real shortage of qualified US Citizen candidates.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson View Post
    To unscrupulous employers, this allows a form of indentured servitude. These employers can offer lower wages and benefits, poorer working environment and longer working hours. The H1B employee choice is to accept what ever is offered or be deported.
    That sounds more like the description of employers hiring illegal immigrants who have no rights and are treated like animals. However, H1b workers are highly qualified and educated employees with at least a Bachelor or Master degree. Most of these people got their degrees in the US and if an employer gives them a chance to work for them, these highly qualified legal workers get paid the same salary US workers do and work the same hours too. Otherwise, they have the right to report an abuse by their employer or simply find a different employer. So the only reason why the title of this thread sounds so alarming is because the US immigration laws would only allow H1b workers to be hired if no other US worker can perform this job which is stupid, but according to immigration laws it is a way to protect US worker jobs. If the immigration laws would not allow legal immigrants to work then there would not be any legal workers in the US. Do you think that is a better solution?

    Al
    Last edited by TreoRock; 06/25/2007 at 12:20 AM.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson View Post
    Compared to the salaries and rights that a US citizen is afforded, the H1B presents a great opportunity to US corporations.

    IMO, the big pushes to get more H1B's that are seen in Congress are more about what I said above rather than a real shortage of qualified US Citizen candidates.
    Wow - I wish I had known that so I can stop paying the Chinese workers I have on staff so much money. Honestly, your opinion amounts to uneducated rhetoric at best. I have hired H1Bs when and if I cannot find qualified US citizens to fill a highly skilled position. Most of the H1Bs hired in the US work in the high-tech sector and quite often there just isn't enough US MSee/PhDs around when you are in the semiconductor industry or other high-tech businesses. And I can tell you this much...the one's I've hired like money just as much as the US workers I have and they are paid accordingly.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson View Post
    Hiring someone with a H1B visa has some advantages over hiring a US Citizen with the same qualifications.

    The main advantage concerns what happens when the employee with the H1B is fired. The H1B is for the job, so the H1B goes away with the job. This leaves the former employee only a few days to find a new H1B qualified job or risk deportation.

    To unscrupulous employers, this allows a form of indentured servitude. These employers can offer lower wages and benefits, poorer working environment and longer working hours. The H1B employee choice is to accept what ever is offered or be deported.

    Compared to the salaries and rights that a US citizen is afforded, the H1B presents a great opportunity to US corporations.

    IMO, the big pushes to get more H1B's that are seen in Congress are more about what I said above rather than a real shortage of qualified US Citizen candidates.
    EXACTLY
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo View Post
    That sounds more like the description of employers hiring illegal immigrants who have no rights and are treated like animals. However, H1b workers are highly qualified and educated employees with at least a Bachelor or Master degree. Most of these people got their degrees in the US and if an employer gives them a chance to work for them, these highly qualified legal workers get paid the same salary US workers do and work the same hours too. Otherwise, they have the right to report an abuse by their employer or simply find a different employer. So the only reason why the title of this thread sounds so alarming is because the US immigration laws would only allow H1b workers to be hired if no other US worker can perform this job which is stupid, but according to immigration laws it is a way to protect US worker jobs. If the immigration laws would not allow legal immigrants to work then there would not be any legal workers in the US. Do you think that is a better solution?

    Al

    You obviously did not watch the video.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Wow - I wish I had known that so I can stop paying the Chinese workers I have on staff so much money. Honestly, your opinion amounts to uneducated rhetoric at best. I have hired H1Bs when and if I cannot find qualified US citizens to fill a highly skilled position. Most of the H1Bs hired in the US work in the high-tech sector and quite often there just isn't enough US MSee/PhDs around when you are in the semiconductor industry or other high-tech businesses. And I can tell you this much...the one's I've hired like money just as much as the US workers I have and they are paid accordingly.
    No, the H1B visa program is being increasingly used to fill lower level high tech jobs. And if you watch the video, it shows how to avoid hiring an equally skilled American.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    EXACTLY
    daThomas, You are not reading the true facts on this thread. You are just justifying the arguments from people who have no clue who a H1b worker is. In fact, you might have seen many of these workers and never even realized they were legal immigrants and confused them by Americans, because they are highly educated professionals who pay taxes, insurance, drive legally and contribute to the development of this great country. If you are looking for people to hate you are messing with the wrong people. Try hating those who rape, kill and waste our tax money on drugs and other crap.

    Al
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    No, the H1B visa program is being increasingly used to fill lower level high tech jobs. And if you watch the video, it shows how to avoid hiring an equally skilled American.
    I'll have to watch it. I am speaking from my own personal vantage point as an employer and I can tell you my company does no such thing. The video sounds deplorable though.

    Now aside from the dirt bags in this video, is there any other evidence of the increased rate of companies willfully exploiting the H1B program and filling lower level high-tech jobs? Anthing about the shortage of qualified people for lower level high-tech jobs? I'm not being pissy about it...I really want to know. I may be pretty naive about this whole thing after all.

    I suppose it all may depend on the tech sector too. I mean there is still a bevy of IT people out there since the crash of the internet hay days and Y2K behind us. But there are others where it is just plain hard to find any qualified personnel. Semiconductors being one of them.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    No, the H1B visa program is being increasingly used to fill lower level high tech jobs. And if you watch the video, it shows how to avoid hiring an equally skilled American.
    OK, so you are basing all your arguments on a video? Dude, did you ever work on a research at school? If you want to learn the true facts you need to first find a reputable source, then a second and a third. After that, if you still think that video is the real deal then you need to do more research. I've done my homework on this subject and I can tell you that you do not know what you are saying.

    Al
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Wow - I wish I had known that so I can stop paying the Chinese workers I have on staff so much money. Honestly, your opinion amounts to uneducated rhetoric at best. I have hired H1Bs when and if I cannot find qualified US citizens to fill a highly skilled position. Most of the H1Bs hired in the US work in the high-tech sector and quite often there just isn't enough US MSee/PhDs around when you are in the semiconductor industry or other high-tech businesses. And I can tell you this much...the one's I've hired like money just as much as the US workers I have and they are paid accordingly.
    Finally, somebody with real life experience showing some light to the blinds on this thread.

    Al
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo View Post
    daThomas, You are not reading the true facts on this thread. You are just justifying the arguments from people who have no clue who a H1b worker is. In fact, you might have seen many of these workers and never even realized they were legal immigrants and confused them by Americans, because they are highly educated professionals who pay taxes, insurance, drive legally and contribute to the development of this great country. If you are looking for people to hate you are messing with the wrong people. Try hating those who rape, kill and waste our tax money on drugs and other crap.

    Al
    I'm not trying to "hate" anyone except these scumbag lawyers and corporations who want to avoid hiring equally qualified American workers in favor of H1B visa workers. Gee that just sounds odd. Why do you think a company would want to do that. And I am speaking from experience as I work in the tech industry.

    Instead of putting so much effort into hiring non-Americans, why don't companies train and hire from within?
  19. #19  
    Hmmm...I think perhaps I owe DHAnderson an apology. http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1305.html

    I guess I've used the system as it was intended to be used so to your post to be offensive. But it does sound like there may be others that are abusing it and you could be right. What a shame.
  20. #20  
    For full disclosure, I have been a Software Engineering Manager and Director of Product Development in past jobs. I have over 20 years in the software industry. I also have hired employees and helped them get H1B's and I have had to fire some employees with H1B's. All of the H1B hiring was prior to the .com bust when there was an actual labor shortage for qualified software engineers.

    While I have always practiced equal pay and benefits, I know of at least one large company that provides working conditions that I mentioned.

    I do not hate immigrants, and favor fair and equal treatment for everyone. What I do not support is a wholesale increase of H1B Visas with out any real documentation of the need, or companies that make money out of exploiting the H1B Visa program.

    - Dave
    Last edited by DHAnderson; 06/25/2007 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Fix typo
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