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  1.    #1  
    Tony was killed....

    in fact, the ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all

    the ending was simple, he got killed, but let me tell y’all why and explain in detail... There were 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony.....

    the two black guys, they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, this was in one of the earlier seasons,

    also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is Nikki Leotardo, Phil Leotardo's nephew, he was in one of the early season episodes where Phil and Tony have a sit down....

    heres where the genius comes in....

    When Tony's walking in the diner, you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking @ the booth hes gonna sit at...

    then the camera switches back to tonys face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking @ the door and looking @ the people come in..... Everytime the door opens the Chimes sound....... Carmela walks in, Chimes, AJ walks in Chimes, this when Meadows parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant....

    at this point the camera switches back to the trucker who goes in the bathroom......

    Then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner....

    the doors about to open, Tony looks up....

    and No Chimes......................

    No Music............

    Everything just goes black...............

    In one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tonys talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die..

    Bobby says "at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black"


    part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the last seconds of it, when tonys about to go to sleep and he flashes back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "You probably dont hear anything everything just goes black"


    so in the end, the Journey song was playing, the chimes on the door sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the trucker hat came out and killed tony...

    its the reason you don'thear, or see anything when he died.... it was from his perspective.... and everything went black, then the credits rolled.



    How does everyone feel about this?
  2. #2  
    Very good analysis and I would have to agree. I hadn't picked-up on all of those elements before although I recalled the conversation with Bobby and came to the same conclusion, based on that, that he had been killed.
  3. #5  
    very creative, but why would there be 3 people there that wanted to kill him- coincidence that all three just converged on him at the same time?

    ahh.. just read your links - so that squashes the guy at the bar stool - plus why would the killer go to the bathroom first?
  4. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by italiangspot View Post
    Small world, I went to college with the guy that wrote that article.
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    #7  
    HBO denies that any of the "strangers" in the Holstens scene had previously been on the Sopranos. As to whether or not Tony dies, that's up to the viewer to decide. My bet is nothing happened, Chase is just playing with us.
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  6. #8  
    I think people can take the stance that he died, but we will never know definitively.

    Italiangspot brings up a very insightful point. That WAS what Tony predicted death would be like, but how can we really know the black screen meant his death or just the death of the show?

    I think we`re assuming the trucker came out just as Meadow entered the restaurant, but we dont know for sure. You dont see that happen. The group of gangsters came in but walked to another area of the restaurant, away from the Sopranos. The killer may very well have been the guy at the bar stool too. He turned and looked at Tony very surrupticiously just before everything blacked out. All we have is what`s left to the imagination.

    At this point, Im 50/50 on whether he lived or died. Maybe I completely misread it, but the song choice "Dont stop believing", to me, meant there is always a chance that the show may go on in one form or another. Chase himself said I "never say never". If Tony had died, his answer would have been "never".

    He leaves it ambiguous, so that the audience can imagine several different ways the Sopranos` lives went on from that singular point. This is very creative on Chase`s part. It keeps the episode on your mind, rather than providing you with a final, ultimate closure. Its what will make it unique from all other TV series. By doing it this way, he leaves the future of this show open, and when a series is this overwhelmingly successful, why would you want to destroy any possibilities in the future?
    Last edited by treobk214; 06/12/2007 at 11:42 AM.
  7. #9  
    It made heros out of the mob characters. Not the best example to set.

    Ben
  8. #10  
    Was it on last night?? I missed it...
  9. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It made heros out of the mob characters. Not the best example to set.

    Ben
    Then don't watch it. Better yet don't subscribe to HBO.

    FWIW - I don't think it made heros out of mob characters at all. It showed that they have families away from the "family" but other than that Tony was a murderer. Sure he may have been the "good guy" relative to Phil or some of the other mobsters but that is all relative. In the end Tony is a murderer and anybody at watched the series got to see the dark side of him many times over. I think Chase constantly reminded us of that fact over and over again. e.g. I cannot see how killing his own nephew made him look like a hero. Or cutting off Ralphies head. etc. etc.
  10. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by eddieras View Post
    plus why would the killer go to the bathroom first?
    Couple of possible reasons, but most likely reason for people associating it with a hit is The Godfather. Michael cannot bring a gun in with him because he knows he'll be patted down. A gun is planted in the bathroom for him behind the tank of a toilet. He excuses himself to go to the bathroom and gets the gun. Walks back, kills his marks, and walks right out. This gives him the advantage of surprise and perspective (marks are seated and he is standing).
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny
    Then don't watch it. Better yet don't subscribe to HBO.
    I don't (either of them).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It made heros out of the mob characters. Not the best example to set.

    Ben
    As Long as Tony lives in the suburbs, wife drives a Mercedes and he is trying to put his kids thru college, main stream America can relate and love the badboy side as well when compared to Gangster rappers in rap videos which they cannot identify with...lol. In other words Ben, I agree.
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  12. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Then don't watch it. Better yet don't subscribe to HBO.

    FWIW - I don't think it made heros out of mob characters at all. It showed that they have families away from the "family" but other than that Tony was a murderer. Sure he may have been the "good guy" relative to Phil or some of the other mobsters but that is all relative. In the end Tony is a murderer and anybody at watched the series got to see the dark side of him many times over. I think Chase constantly reminded us of that fact over and over again. e.g. I cannot see how killing his own nephew made him look like a hero. Or cutting off Ralphies head. etc. etc.
    I think Ben is relating to the popularity of the show. I actually like the Sapranos but I am smart enough to know that they are like any other gangster...not only likeable because they have a suburban family lifestyle which I can relate too. Other raw gangster movies that aren't in relation don't do as well.
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  13. #15  
    What is your problem? Who are you to tell me not to watch it or not to subscribe to HBO?

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Then don't watch it. Better yet don't subscribe to HBO.

    FWIW - I don't think it made heros out of mob characters at all. It showed that they have families away from the "family" but other than that Tony was a murderer. Sure he may have been the "good guy" relative to Phil or some of the other mobsters but that is all relative. In the end Tony is a murderer and anybody at watched the series got to see the dark side of him many times over. I think Chase constantly reminded us of that fact over and over again. e.g. I cannot see how killing his own nephew made him look like a hero. Or cutting off Ralphies head. etc. etc.
  14. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    What is your problem? Who are you to tell me not to watch it or not to subscribe to HBO?

    Ben
    The thread is about "How the Sopranos Ended" and you've felt it perfectly fine to interject with your "family values" comment of the day. So since you've taken the liberty to impart your parental advice to us all I thought it was probably OK for me to help steer you toward a more appropriate place and/or way to voice your concerns about subscription-based TV with huge parental disclaimers at the beginning of the show - HBO. It certainly isn't the author of this thread.
  15. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    I think Ben is relating to the popularity of the show. I actually like the Sapranos but I am smart enough to know that they are like any other gangster...not only likeable because they have a suburban family lifestyle which I can relate too. Other raw gangster movies that aren't in relation don't do as well.
    Actually I dated a daughter of a "connected guy" back in the 80s (wish I had known before I was dating her) and in fact they were the typical Italian family - not as dysfunctional as the Sopranos, but were every bit a typical upper middle class family. What was missing was the amount of bling, winged tipped shoes and other stereo typed stuff from my recollection. But maybe that is because this was in NY and not NJ.

    BTW - I never stopped looking over my shoulder after we broke up until her father died years later.
  16. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    ...when compared to Gangster rappers in rap videos which they cannot identify with...lol.
    You have a point there. MTV is certainly not what it used to be. There is something wrong with parents that let kids watch gangsta' rap videos IMO. Or just about anything on MTV these days for that matter...but I digress...this thread is supposed to be about the ending of the Sopranos.
  17. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by italiangspot View Post
    then the camera switches back to tonys face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking @ the door and looking @ the people come in..... Everytime the door opens the Chimes sound....... Carmela walks in, Chimes, AJ walks in Chimes, this when Meadows parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant....

    at this point the camera switches back to the trucker who goes in the bathroom......

    Then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner....

    the doors about to open, Tony looks up....

    and No Chimes......................

    Hmm...interesting theory but I just watched the end again and I distinctly heard the "chime" you claim is missing.

    I was shocked at the ending at first but appreciated the way he built up the suspense and then left the canvas to be painted by the viewer. Did Meadow get grabbed and pulled into the dinner at gun point? Don't know - we never see her step into the diner. Did the trucker come out and arrest Tony or kill him? Don't know but if he was shot he did it from a few feet away and Tony never noticed the guy coming out - which I find unusual for a guy that has spent a life time looking over his shoulder.

    In the end it is a little piece of art and we all got to decide week after week whether we wanted to see the next painting. It's OK to decide the painting wasn't to your liking, but I get a laugh out of those that are cancelling HBO because they didn't get the ending "they deserve".
  18. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Actually I dated a daughter of a "connected guy" back in the 80s (wish I had known before I was dating her) and in fact they were the typical Italian family - not as dysfunctional as the Sopranos, but were every bit a typical upper middle class family. What was missing was the amount of bling, winged tipped shoes and other stereo typed stuff from my recollection. But maybe that is because this was in NY and not NJ.

    BTW - I never stopped looking over my shoulder after we broke up until her father died years later.
    LMAO...and I am laughing with you, not at you.
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