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  1.    #1  
    I seem to remember Pelosi saying something about presiding over "the most honest, most open, and most ethical Congress in history." Goodness gracious. I have seen nothing hear about this. House Appropriations Committee chairman David Obey, a Democrat from Wisconsin, has announced he will allow all earmarks into conference reports, which are negotiated behind closed doors and cannot be amended when they reach the House and Senate floors.

    How can this be justified based upon Pelosi's statement?

    Ben
  2. #2  
    Unless the Appropriations Commitee is debating how many Treos and Fooleos to buy, I don't think this belongs in the Treo General Chat forum...

    I may be wrong though
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I seem to remember Pelosi saying something about presiding over "the most honest, most open, and most ethical Congress in history." Goodness gracious. I have seen nothing hear about this. House Appropriations Committee chairman David Obey, a Democrat from Wisconsin, has announced he will allow all earmarks into conference reports, which are negotiated behind closed doors and cannot be amended when they reach the House and Senate floors.

    How can this be justified based upon Pelosi's statement?

    Ben
    They have definitely screwed the pooch on this one. But then again, I'm not too sure the GOP should dare to cast a single stone given the shattered glass house they still live in.
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    They have definitely screwed the pooch on this one. But then again, I'm not too sure the GOP should dare to cast a single stone given the shattered glass house they still live in.
    One has to wonder just where Ben's righteous indignation has been for the past 6 years. Likely, it's the same location as all his other long-abandoned arguments ...

  5.    #5  
    Not at all. The Republicans did the same thing, just did not make the noise about being the most honest, open, et cetera.

    So, Backbeat, do you have any comment about their action? Do you support it? I did not support it when the Republicans did it.

    Ben
  6. #6  
    I don't support it - as I alluded to above. But taking one or two things the Dems have done of late and comparing it to the .... I've lost count ... amount of crap the GOP has pulled the last 6+ years seems to be a battle that cannot be won.
  7. #7  
    One can always find a worse situation to which a comparison may give favorable appearance. But lesser corruption is no less corruption.
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I did not support it when the Republicans did it.
    You didn't? Care to quote your outrage from that time? Just watch the avoidance

    Where did David Obey make a solemn vow to make earmarks a public spectacle? I'm no fan of Obey, but certainly you're not so naive, Ben, to believe that Appropriations, the single-most influential/powerful of House committees, is under the thumb of any single Speaker or ranking Member. What can I say, I guess Nancy Pelosi is no Tom Delay?!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    But lesser corruption is no less corruption.
    Yes, of course. Broad-stroked stereo typing is always best. Especially when it fits one political agenda.

    It's interesting to me that in previous threads you more or less indicated you opt for "lesser of the evils" when voting since both parties posses elements of evil. Yet your statement above seems to indicate otherwise.

    So let me understand the complaint here by Ben. The Dems have promised reform to a very broken system and yet continue to ignore and exploit the awful practice of "earmarks". And since they have not done that yet - if I follow his logic correctly (and the right wing pundits) - basically, both parties are corrupt so I may as well vote Repub since the Dems are "just as bad?"
    Last edited by moderateinny; 06/08/2007 at 07:44 AM.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Yes, of course. Broad-stroked stereo typing is always best. Especially when it fits one political agenda.
    Identification of "evil" in one party is not exoneration of the same in another. It is appropriate to point out that the trumpeted reforms have not been implemented.
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post

    It's interesting to me that in previous threads you more or less indicated you opt for "lesser of the evils" when voting since they both parties posses elements of evil. Yet your statement above seems to indicate otherwise.
    How does my statement indicate otherwise?

    Lesser evil is still evil. Lesser corruption is still corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post

    So let me understand the complaint here by Ben. The Dems have promised reform to a very broken system and yet continue to ignore and exploit the awful practice of "earmarks". And since they have not done that yet - if I follow his logic correctly (and the right wing pundits) - basically, both parties are corrupt so I may as well vote Repub since the Dems are "just as bad?"
    What part of Ben's post advocates voting Repub?
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    #11  
    ^ Shop - Don't you have other abandoned arguments to complete before you leave this one high and dry too? ... Beuller ...
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Identification of "evil" in one party is not exoneration of the same in another.
    Not sure that I've exonerated anyone at all. I think I've stated twice now that I am disappointed that reform has not yet come.

    It is appropriate to point out that the trumpeted reforms have not been implemented.
    Yup. Duly noted. Three times now.

    How does my statement indicate otherwise?
    Oh...I'm sorry. I thought that you said "One can always find a worse situation to which a comparison may give favorable appearance. But lesser corruption is no less corruption. which I interpreted that to mean you feel that both parties are equally corrupt.

    Lesser evil is still evil. Lesser corruption is still corruption.
    Sure, OK, I see your logic now. One bad apple is pretty much the same as one bad crop. I mean if one apple is bad then the rest are at least suspect if not bad themselves.
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Not sure that I've exonerated anyone at all. I think I've stated twice now that I am disappointed that reform has not yet come.
    Afterall, the Dems have had an entire <5 months to cleanup decades [or in this case, centuries] of abuse. Talk about hollow, ill-conceived false arguments.
  14. #14  
    Well they do need to move faster on the issue so I hope that it happens soon.

    FWIW - here is an interesting article on Media Matters about the GOP strategy to smear the Dems based on a bad apple.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200706070008?src=other
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Not sure that I've exonerated anyone at all. I think I've stated twice now that I am disappointed that reform has not yet come.



    Yup. Duly noted. Three times now.



    Oh...I'm sorry. I thought that you said "One can always find a worse situation to which a comparison may give favorable appearance. But lesser corruption is no less corruption. which I interpreted that to mean you feel that both parties are equally corrupt.



    Sure, OK, I see your logic now. One bad apple is pretty much the same as one bad crop. I mean if one apple is bad then the rest are at least suspect if not bad themselves.
    The point of my post was that it is not necessary to evaluate what Dems are doing in light of what Repubs have done or are doing, i.e.

    But taking one or two things the Dems have done of late and comparing it to the .... I've lost count ... amount of crap the GOP has pulled the last 6+ years seems to be a battle that cannot be won.
    The rightness or wrongness of it can be assessed independently.
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Well they do need to move faster on the issue so I hope that it happens soon.
    While I agree 100%, the reality of politics and timeframes has to sink in eventually if there is an atom of honor within the detractors' argument.
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    The rightness or wrongness of it can be assessed independently.
    And when was the last time we witnessed the Repugs disarm unilaterally?
  18. #18  
    you mean like the way they earmarked an increase in the minimum wage? those sneaky dems...deep in the pockets of the "big poverty" lobbyists. lol
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    #19  
    In fact, when was the last time the Repugs ever policed themselves when their sins came back upon them? When caught in bribery, illegal quid pro quo deals, money laundering, etc., what were the actions of these temples of integrity?
    WASHINGTON, April 14, 2005 - Ten former members of Congress, all Republicans, joined in a letter to the House leadership on Thursday to say they believed that revisions in House ethics rules this year were an "obvious action to protect Majority Leader Tom DeLay" from investigation. They said the changes needed to be reversed "to restore public confidence in the People's House."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/politics/15delay.html

    I'll take the multiple ethics reform bills approved by the House in the last 5 months over the years of self-preservation-above-all-costs/values of the Repugs any day of the week.
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    #20  
    Ben - Thanks for yet another entertaining episode of Unsustainably Implausible Arguments of the Inept and Vocal
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