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  1. #21  
    Frankly the morals of the majority are all ready here and very apparent in our society. I took a bit of the day off yesterday to spend time at the beach.

    Ben
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I took a bit of the day off yesterday to spend time at the beach.

    Ben
    No worries....its been nice weather for it. I'll let you get the sand washed off and await your answers.
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Both political parties have people who respect personal responsibility and family values.
    Really? To whom do you give your official stamp of approval within the Democratic Party?


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Couldn't think of any, Benji?
  4. #24  
    moderateinny,

    Let me rephrase your question: Shop, how do you hold to that standard in light of the current political culture and process?

    In determining who, if any, will receive my vote, I evaluate the ideas being set forth by the candidates and assess which, if implemented, are more likely to create a environment in which the nation can prosper. For legislative bodies, I also evaluate the ideas being set forth by the candidates' political parties, as the current process gives much sway to the Party with the majority of its members in office.
  5. #25  
    Those candidates that take the same or a similar stance that I do. Give it time, there may not be one on the national level, but there are bunches on the local level.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Really? To whom do you give your official stamp of approval within the Democratic Party?


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Couldn't think of any, Benji?
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Those candidates that take the same or a similar stance that I do.
    I'm still waiting to hear specifics.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    No worries....its been nice weather for it. I'll let you get the sand washed off and await your answers.
    It's apparent from your posts that you don't realize that Ben is six time zones away.
  8. #28  
    Yep, Hawaii is a bit of a distance away.

    As for specifics, it is too early in the game to say a lot. I do believe that most are too far from center for me. Hillary for instance is conservative when she speaks to one group, pro union when she speaks with another group, very religious with her Bible in her hand when she speaks in a church, very liberal when she speaks to the left of her party. She changes positions to fit the group she is appearing in front of.

    The other front runner does not change so much.

    The thing to consider though, the two front runners are junior Senators with limited experience compared with many others. Why should we believe they are capable of running the show - neither has run anything of consequence, neither has a business back ground, et cetera.

    Ben
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    She changes positions to fit the group she is appearing in front of.
    Not to mention her accent!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The thing to consider though, the two front runners are junior Senators with limited experience compared with many others. Why should we believe they are capable of running the show - neither has run anything of consequence, neither has a business back ground, et cetera.
    There are really two further things to consider. First, the question was not limited to presidential candidates. Second, this far from the end of the race, the front runner rarely has the stamina to make it to the end.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    It's apparent from your posts that you don't realize that Ben is six time zones away.
    So what? I'm in CA now and on my way to Hong Kong next week and will be back in NY after that. So I am sorry if I tend to lose track of time.

    Honestly....do you have anything of value to add to these threads?
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Not to mention her accent!

    LOL. I am from NY and I can do a better southern accent than that. Boy that was pathetic.

    But I suppose in the big picture, I'd hate to think she could lose the presidency because she does a bad southern accent. She should lose for other reasons, but probably not her bad southern accent. ALL politicians are chameleons to some degree to appease constituents. I mean wasn't Bush supposed to be a "compassionate conservative"? Wasn't he supposed to bring "honesty and integrity back to the Oval office?"
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Those candidates that take the same or a similar stance that I do. Give it time, there may not be one on the national level, but there are bunches on the local level.

    Ben
    'Bunches', eh? Such as . . . . . ? ? ? ? ?
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I mean wasn't Bush supposed to be a "compassionate conservative"? Wasn't he supposed to bring "honesty and integrity back to the Oval office?"
    He's also a Connecticut Yankee-In-Cowboy-Drag.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As for specifics, it is too early in the game to say a lot. I do believe that most are too far from center for me. Hillary for instance is conservative when she speaks to one group, pro union when she speaks with another group, very religious with her Bible in her hand when she speaks in a church, very liberal when she speaks to the left of her party. She changes positions to fit the group she is appearing in front of.

    The other front runner does not change so much.

    The thing to consider though, the two front runners are junior Senators with limited experience compared with many others. Why should we believe they are capable of running the show - neither has run anything of consequence, neither has a business back ground, et cetera.

    Ben

    Fair enough.....sort of. As Toby pointed out, my question is not limited to a couple of JR. Senators. So let me spell it out since you're not biting.

    First, I've made some assumptions and you can correct me if I'm wrong as I don't mean to insult you....but I am guessing you vote predominantly Republican, correct?

    Assuming you do, it would seem you like that they represent family values and personal responsibility. I am asking you to tell me exactly how they do that better than the Democrats. And not a couple of left-wingers, I'm talking the majority of Dems?

    What most in this thread have agreed to is that neither party holds a moral advantage over the other and that government should not legislate morality. Given that, I am trying to rationalize exactly what the GOP brings to the table over the Dems as far as family values and personal responsibility?
  16. #36  
    Oh, no I do not vote predominately Republican. I was raised a Democrat, born into a long standing Democrat family. The reason I left was due to ethics. I voted for the dude and then decided his values were not my values and the party had been changing to much that it no longer represented the over all values I was brought up with.

    The majority of Democrats have values similar to mine. When you look at it, many issues pushed by the liberal side hit the court system only because the majority will not have it. If the majority wanted abortion, abortion would be. If the majority wanted...but the majority does not want it. The vocal minority does and the vocal minority is always heard of the non-vocal majority.

    The last election here in Hawaii had me voting for two Democrats and three Republicans.

    The Republican party pushes personal responsibility - do it yourself. The Democrat party which is being moved by the liberal side is just the opposite. The radical wing of the Democrat party has far more money to spend than the radical wing of the Republican party and what does it get them? And to be to the point, both radical wings are dangerous.

    We need a president that takes a stand. None of the Democrats running for president have taken a stand. None. The stands they take changes when they talk to a different group. Every one of them does. The Republican candidates do take stands, though there is the occasional one that was pro choice and is now pro life - however when the changes are announced, the explanation given is at least consistent. None has radically changed a statement given and you cannot say that with the Democrat candidates.

    So, if there were a Democrat running with values similar to mine and that candidate is consistent, then that person may get my vote.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    So what? I'm in CA now and on my way to Hong Kong next week and will be back in NY after that. So I am sorry if I tend to lose track of time.

    Honestly....do you have anything of value to add to these threads?
    A "thank you" would suffice.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    A "thank you" would suffice.
    Thank you.
  19.    #39  
    The Republican party pushes personal responsibility - do it yourself.
    OK, lets run with that. How do they push personal responsibility more so than the Democrats?

    And as I asked in an earlier posts -

    So are the oil companies "entitled" to make $50 billion per quarter in profits along with their GOP backed corporate welfare packaged up as tax incentives? Does that qualify as an entitlement? Or are you saying that just the poor that abuse the welfare system (I am not denying the system is abused by some) are the only one's that have such a sense of entitlement?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I am asking you to tell me exactly how they do that better than the Democrats. And not a couple of left-wingers, I'm talking the majority of Dems?
    If by "the majority of Dems" you talk of the voters, I submit that most are in the middle and share similar values and moral integrity as the majority do on the "other" political side.

    If by "the majority of Dems" you talk of the national candidates/elected officials, I submit none (along with the "Reps") is a reflection of family values or personal responsibility as you and I, and most of "middle" America, understand those to be.

    What most in this thread have agreed to is that neither party holds a moral advantage over the other and that government should not legislate morality.
    Agree on both counts.




    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I voted for the dude and then decided his values were not my values and the party had been changing to much that it no longer represented the over all values I was brought up with.
    .
    .
    .
    The last election here in Hawaii had me voting for two Democrats and three Republicans.
    Excellent decision Ben.

    No Party has a monopoly on good ideas or morality for that matter.


    The Republican party pushes personal responsibility - do it yourself. The Democrat party which is being moved by the liberal side is just the opposite...And to be to the point, both radical wings are dangerous.
    I disagree, neither Party pushes for any personal responsibility, they both hijack issues that appeal to specific voting blocks to secure their power as a Party. All, in my opinion, is just deception designed to confuse and polarize the electorate into voting for them.

    If integrity, high moral standards and personal responsibility be a defining "staple" of the Republican Party, scandals (public and personal) and corrupt behavior of elected officials would be rare, and the Party would be forthcoming in acknowledging any misbehavior, accepting full responsibility without the need of protracted investigations.

    We need a president that takes a stand.
    We do, pity we are only presented with mediocre candidates to choose from.

    None of the Democrats running for president have taken a stand. None. The stands they take changes when they talk to a different group. Every one of them does.
    True, but neither have the Republicans; you can not take a stance so long as you don't stand for something. You can only stand for something if you have courage and conviction - none descriptive of our current crop of politicians.

    We have serious problems in America and only see career politicians bidding for more political power. I fail to see a true leader in the crowd, someone that will embrace not what is popular with a group but what is right for the country.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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