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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by aslmentor View Post
    Yes you did.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomUps
    What actions should the U.S. take responsibility for in regards to Hezbollah?

    (backbeat)
    Follow through with its financial commitments to the democratically elected government ... just for starters. We're [once again] creating enemies by taking the low road.

    If that doesn't say it, I don't know what it is. all we asked were links or facts and got smoke. Enjoy your trolling....
    Could you please point to the nation of Hezbollah on a map?

    Is there no intellectual honesty on your side of the aisle? Seriously?
    Last edited by backbeat; 05/10/2007 at 04:41 PM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aslmentor View Post
    Yes you did.
    "If the US hadn't spent the past 50 years creating enemies in South America via CIA-orchestrated paramilitary coups, manipulated elections, supported complicit, brutal dictators [where have I heard that before ], Hezbollah may not have located fertile ground on which to build. That which ye sow ...
    " then you followed up with...
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomUps
    What actions should the U.S. take responsibility for in regards to Hezbollah?

    (backbeat)
    Follow through with its financial commitments to the democratically elected government ... just for starters. We're [once again] creating enemies by taking the low road.



    If that doesn't say it, I don't know what it is. all we asked were links or facts and got smoke. Enjoy your trolling....
    In all fairness he never mentioned any reference to financial responsibilities towards Hezbollah on his prior posts.

    If I interpreted his point correctly, he refers to failed US commitments towards the goverment of Lebanon contributing to Hezbollah's popularity.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Hobbes - What does it matter when there is no right to habeas corpus, whereby any person for any reason the President desires can be immediately pulled off the street, off the job, out of their home without any disclosure of charges and no access to legal counsel?
    Where is your source that immigrants in question would not go through an immigration legal process where they could not prove their legality of being here in the US? Here is some more details on what it does do:

    The measure makes it a crime to move, transport or try to transport known illegal immigrants within the state.

    It also makes it a crime to conceal, harbor, or shelter illegal immigrants; it tightens eligibility for state driver's licenses and identity cards.

    The measure requires jail officers to try to verify citizenship or immigration status.

    Those who are in the nation illegally are to be deemed a flight risk for bond determination.

    The bill requires all public employers, including contractors and subcontractors, to verify work authorization of all new employees starting July 1, 2008.

    Under the measure, it would be discrimination for an employer to discharge a legal resident while retaining an illegal immigrant hired after July 1, 2008, in a comparable job.

    But for it to be a violation, the employer had to know or reasonably should have known the retained employee was illegally in this country.

    The measure requires state and local agencies to verify lawful presence for state and local public benefits, but provides exceptions for certain emergency and humanitarian services.

    Source: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic..._A1_spanc70775
  4. backbeat's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Where is your source that immigrants in question would not go through an immigration legal process where they could not prove their legality of being here in the US?
    Wow! Where does that come from in relation to the issue of the loss of the Right of Habeas Corpus?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Wow! Where does that come from in relation to the issue of the loss of the Right of Habeas Corpus?
    Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Where is your source that immigrants in question would not go through an immigration legal process where they could not prove their legality of being here in the US?
    An actually here is the referrence:

    http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/winter01/neuman.html

    That reminds me of an INS patient I saw about two weeks ago, from China. He tried seeking political asylum but the access to the court was "blocked" (I don't know exactly why - was interviewed via third person) and was getting ready for deportation!
    Last edited by TreoNewt; 05/10/2007 at 05:25 PM.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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  6. #46  
    Thanks for supplying a source for him...I was just trying to understand where he was coming from, which I apparently misunderstood as I thought he was replying to the effects of the new OK Bill directly.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 05/10/2007 at 07:35 PM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Thanks for supplying a source for him...I was just trying to understand where he was coming from, which I apparently misunderstood as I thought he was replying to the effects of the new OK Bill.
    I believe the Supreme Court addressed some of this in 2001 but I need to do some additional research on how this impacts the whole issue.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  8. backbeat's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Thanks for supplying a source for him...I was just trying to understand where he was coming from, which I apparently misunderstood as I thought he was replying to the effects of the new OK Bill.
    An understanding of the weighty issue of the loss of the right to Habeas Corpus was all that was necessary to follow its relationship to the OK law. Need a link to the vote from last year too?
  9. TomUps's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Actually there is some truth to us helping a young Bin Laden:
    At the time, it was more support against Russia than support for any Bin Laden cause. This scenario has played out several times in history with many different nations.....the enemy of my enemy is my friend so I will support them not knowing 20 years later they would be a bigger enemy than my original enemy I support them in helping to bring down. If you are interested in seeing where the Ladin's original fortune came from, you can read about it here:



    Now as for our financial obligations to Hez, I don't have a clue.
    You forgot to mention the best part of the article you posted.....

    "But some of the information on the Net may be deliberate misinformation. This is field intelligence and is, therefore, unconfirmed. The following biography is based on such material as well as information published in the West. "

    Hardly what I would call solid evidence.


    I asked backbeat the following....
    Originally Posted by TomUps
    What actions should the U.S. take responsibility for in regards to Hezbollah?

    backbeats response was....
    Follow through with its financial commitments to the democratically elected government ... just for starters.


    So I ask again what financial commitements are you referring to? If you are referring to Lebanon then you should know the democratically elected PM of the country was assasinated in a massive truck bomb. There is no way Hezbollah didnt have a hand in that. I am also not aware of any financial agreements to Lebanon that the U.S. has not followed through on.
  10. TomUps's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    In all fairness he never mentioned any reference to financial responsibilities towards Hezbollah on his prior posts.

    If I interpreted his point correctly, he refers to failed US commitments towards the goverment of Lebanon contributing to Hezbollah's popularity.
    and those commitments would be what?
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    An understanding of the weighty issue of the loss of the right to Habeas Corpus was all that was necessary to follow its relationship to the OK law. Need a link to the vote from last year too?
    Even after someone else provide a source for your comment, helping you out. And me stating a misunderstanding due to a lack of source, you still come back with an off hand remark.

    Sure I would like to take a look at that vote you are referencing, where could I find it?

    Since you are more versed in this matter than myself, do you have any sources for when the Supreme Court addressed some of this in 2001 that TreoNewt mentioned? I like to learn and am eager to see what else may have developed in this issue since 1996.
  12. backbeat's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    I would have a lot more respect for you if you just acknowledged you were mistaken, instead of continuing in debating a topic that you clearly keep mentioning facts not based in reality.
    Former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was killed over 2 years ago and has nothing to do with the subject matter. Hezbollah had nothing to do with it. You may want to look into Syria, however. Since you're so keenly aware of this, how could the news of the US's refusal to follow through with its commited $1 Billion aid package to Lebanon have eluded you?

    Not a bad primer on the subject
  13. backbeat's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Sure I would like to take a look at that vote you are referencing, where could I find it?
    Try the Federal government. It's a voting record, as I said.

    Senate—S. 3930

    Introduced Sept. 22, 2006

    Amended Sept. 27, 2006

    Passed (65-34-1) Sept. 28, 2006, 6:37 p.m.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    House—H.R. 6166

    Introduced Sept. 28, 2006, 7:28 p.m.

    Passed (253-168-12) Sept. 29, 2006
  14. #54  
    thanks for the numbers, but what exactly where they voting on? That is what I was interesting in looking up. Was the item they voting on called "right to Habeas Corpus"?
  15. backbeat's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    thanks for the numbers, but what exactly where they voting on? That is what I was interesting in looking up. Was the item they voting on called "right to Habeas Corpus"?
    With House Resolution and Senate Bill references provided, something tells me this is disingenuous. But, to make it really easy, try The Military Commissions Act of 2006 from a non-partisan/non op-ed source.
  16. TomUps's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was killed over 2 years ago and has nothing to do with the subject matter. Hezbollah had nothing to do with it. You may want to look into Syria, however. Since you're so keenly aware of this, how could the news of the US's refusal to follow through with its commited $1 Billion aid package to Lebanon have eluded you?

    Not a bad primer on the subject
    He is only the former PM because he was blown up. If not, he would still be in office. If you think Syria killed the pro-western PM without any help or intelligence from Hezbollah then you are crazy.

    If Lebanon is interested in financial aid from the American taxpayers, maybe it should abide by UN resolutions that call for the disarming of Hezbollah and deployment of forces along the border.
  17. backbeat's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    He is only the former PM because he was blown up. If not, he would still be in office. If you think Syria killed the pro-western PM without any help or intelligence from Hezbollah then you are crazy.

    If Lebanon is interested in financial aid from the American taxpayers, maybe it should abide by UN resolutions that call for the disarming of Hezbollah and deployment of forces along the border.
    A little birdy told me your response would be a deflection of the issue of committed US aid to Lebanon. Damn, if he isn't always right.

    BTW - Rafik Hariri was a former Lebanese PM at the time. Where are you fact-checking?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Since you are more versed in this matter than myself, do you have any sources for when the Supreme Court addressed some of this in 2001 that TreoNewt mentioned? I like to learn and am eager to see what else may have developed in this issue since 1996.
    You can read the rest at your leasure at http://www.ailf.org/lac/lac_pa_0406.pdf

    Over the past several years, the Supreme Court has upheld the availability of § 2241 habeas corpus in cases challenging detention. The post-IIRIRA Supreme Court decisions involving such challenges are:

    Zadvydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678 (2001) – The Court held that habeas corpus may be used to bring statutory and constitutional challenges to post-removal order detention. This case addressed whether the government could detain a removable person indefinitely beyond the removal period.

    Demore v. Kim, 538 U.S. 510 (2003) – The Court held that habeas corpus may be used to bring a constitutional challenge to pre-removal order detention. The Court considered the constitutionality of the mandatory detention provision, INA § 236(c).

    Clark v. Martinez, 543 U.S. 371 (2005) – The Court held that its decision in Zadvydas v. Davis also applied to government detention of persons found to be inadmissible.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    and those commitments would be what?
    I was making referrence to the failed reconstruction commitments from the US to Lebanon following the 1975 civil war. I guess this is not exactly what backbeat was alluding to on his prior post.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  20. TomUps's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    A little birdy told me your response would be a deflection of the issue of committed US aid to Lebanon. Damn, if he isn't always right.
    you do realize that in 2006 alone, the US sent over $200 million to Lebanon. Check it out, its just a quick google away.
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