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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Just need to clarify what you are saying here - you think he would because the GOP caters to those most in need? I cannot recall the use of "condescending" in quite the context I think you intended.
    No. The GOP may be those most in need.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    The theist has no foundational, historical basis for there belief that somehow, magically, the United States is the 'promised land' created to save the world from its sin, and to serve their Lord and Master Jesus Christ, as they define his 'agenda'.
    My point was not debate who is right or who is wrong, but rather to state that both sides feel equally threatened by each other's willingness to impose their point of view on the other.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    My point was not debate who is right or who is wrong, but rather to state that both sides feel equally threatened by each other's willingness to impose their point of view on the other.
    Just because there are opposing arguments, does not qualify them as equal, however.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Just because there are opposing arguments, does not qualify them as equal, however.
    Is difficult to hold a dialogue with someone that is so entrenched in partisan politics that refuses to see a general argument beyond political coloring.

    In answer to your question, their arguement is not as valid as yours from your political perspective, guess what, they think similarly about yours from theirs.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  5. backbeat's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    In answer to your question, their arguement is not as valid as yours from your political perspective, guess what, they think similarly about yours from theirs.
    If you were unable to validate a rationale for a pharma script to a particular patient, yet they had, by their own rationale, qualified reasons why it was appropriate, would you call the 2 arguments equal?
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    No. The GOP may be those most in need.
    Phew. OK..thanks.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Phew. OK..thanks.
    I was a registered Republican many years ago, but my conscience got the better of me

    Similar to points raised in this thread, I found it difficult to align, in good conscience, with any political party. I find most ballots to involve selection of "the lesser of two (or more) evils"
  8. backbeat's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I was a registered Republican many years ago, but my conscience got the better of me.
    Believe it or not, same here.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I was a registered Republican many years ago, but my conscience got the better of me

    Similar to points raised in this thread, I found it difficult to align, in good conscience, with any political party. I find most ballots to involve selection of "the lesser of two (or more) evils"
    I fall in line with this 100% as well.

    .......but I think I might still be officially listed as a Rep, as I don't I have changed it since I registered to vote when I was 18 yrs old (and I will not admit to how many years ago that was either! )
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I find most ballots to involve selection of "the lesser of two (or more) evils"
    On that note, you've got yourself an "AMEN"!

    So now that we've tackled all of the most divisive issues recently, you know what I learned? We're all still Americans. We all seem to love our country. We all seem to share some disdain for the current offerings from our political parties. We all seem to recognize that very bad people have done very bad things (again, both sides of the isle) to divide our country by putting party before country. So now what?
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    If you were unable to validate a rationale for a pharma script to a particular patient, yet they had, by their own rationale, qualified reasons why it was appropriate, would you call the 2 arguments equal?
    If I understood your underlying line of thinking correctly, your argument is that my opinion should be regarded as more substantial given the scope of my training in this field. In this scenario, your logic seems certainly correct.

    My point, however, is not who's position is right or wrong, but rather than perceptions from both side of the argument can be similar.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Similar to points raised in this thread, I found it difficult to align, in good conscience, with any political party. I find most ballots to involve selection of "the lesser of two (or more) evils"
    I don't find it difficult in most cases to align with my registered party, but it's neither of the major two, so...
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I was a registered Republican many years ago, but my conscience got the better of me

    Similar to points raised in this thread, I found it difficult to align, in good conscience, with any political party. I find most ballots to involve selection of "the lesser of two (or more) evils"
    I echo the same sentiment - with exception to the Republican registry.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    On that note, you've got yourself an "AMEN"!

    So now that we've tackled all of the most divisive issues recently, you know what I learned? We're all still Americans. We all seem to love our country. We all seem to share some disdain for the current offerings from our political parties. We all seem to recognize that very bad people have done very bad things (again, both sides of the isle) to divide our country by putting party before country. So now what?
    Wow, there is certainly much hope when individual citizens can find common ground to bridge their deepest divides

    My phylosophy, I talk about the maladies of the politicians to all interested parties, not who to vote for but rather how to vote intelligently - by encouraging self-research about their choices.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    So now what?
    With assuming firing them all and starting over is out of the picture.....Would any of these be an option:

    • No lobby money allowed to fund candidates, political parties, or campaigns of any kind. There might even have to be limits enforced of spending for specific causes, party, or candidate in place as well. I.E.....instead of giving money directly to a candidate, a drug company agrees to sponsor their own "independent" advertising campaign relieving that candidate from any and all advertising financial burdens his whole campaign.
    • All benefit packages and salary increases put to a public vote for all public positions.....especially congress and senate.
    • Monetary limits that can be spent on campaign events and advertising
    • This might even be followed by radio and TV stations being compensated by a non-party advertising campaign fund that pays for equal TV and Radio slots for each candidate. This might also give incentives for increased air time for open forum opportunities and debates.
    • Stricter campaign finance laws & regulations (which have been promised and unfulfilled for years...or decades...now)
    • Along with point above, a separate oversight governing body (that is publicly elected...or that an oxymoron...or appointed or a percentage of both) who's sole responsibility and job is within this body and does not include any sitting public office holders.
    • Redefine term limit restrictions for both houses.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 05/07/2007 at 05:43 PM.
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    My point, however, is not who's position is right or wrong, but rather than perceptions from both side of the argument can be similar.
    I have no quarrel that perceptions of the two sides of an argument can seem 'similar', as I understand your statement. However, perceptions of one's own opinion can be quite errant.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    So now what?
    Register Libertarian/Independent/Other and vote alternate party candidates.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    I have no quarrel that perceptions of the two sides of an argument can seem 'similar', as I understand your statement. However, perceptions of one's own opinion can be quite errant.
    That is entirely true and I completely agree with you on this assessment.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  19. #59  
    "I have no quarrel that perceptions of the two sides of an argument can seem 'similar', as I understand your statement. However, perceptions of one's own opinion can be quite errant."

    Agreed!
  20. backbeat's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    • No lobby money allowed to fund candidates, political parties, or campaigns of any kind.
    • Lobbys, PACs and the like should be made illegal ... again. I didn't vote for them to represent me to my elected representative(s), nor do they represent me.

      There might even have to be limits enforced of spending for specific causes, party, or candidate in place as well.
      If public funds are used, no limits should be placed. If a candidate opts out of Federal matching funds, then I can see this as a possibility.

      I.E.....instead of giving money directly to a candidate, a drug company agrees to sponsor their own "independent" advertising campaign relieving that candidate from any and all advertising financial burdens his whole campaign.
      This is the current scenario for 503(c) groups like the Swiftboaters where they cannot explicitly endorse a candidate, but have free reign to attack anyone they choose for as long as their fundraising can hold out.

    • All benefit packages and salary increases put to a public vote for all public positions.....especially congress and senate.
    House and Senate should just be the beginning. Pentagon, State, Interior, etc should fall under such scutiny also as well as every contractor operating on their behalf.

  21. Monetary limits that can be spent on campaign events and advertising
  22. As above with reference to Federal matching funds scenario.

  23. This might even be followed by radio and TV stations being compensated by a non-party advertising campaign fund that pays for equal TV and Radio slots for each candidate. This might also give incentives for increased air time for open forum opportunities and debates.
  24. Unless and until public finance of elections is made the law of the land, this will never happen. If adopted today, it would become another 503(c)-type case for abuse.

  25. Stricter campaign finance laws & regulations (which have been promised and unfulfilled for years...or decades...now)
  26. Along with point above, a separate oversight governing body (that is publicly elected...or that an oxymoron...or appointed or a percentage of both) and does not include any sitting public office holders.
  27. Again, public financing is the only secure solution to address this.

  28. Redefine term limit restrictions for both houses.
  29. Personally, I'm against term limits. If public financing of elections were the universal norm, the incumbent would not have an advantage outside of his/her campaign rhetoric and track record.
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