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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Which country has the highest per capita prison population in the world? Which country has the largest prison population in the world?
    North Korea. 100%. 23 million.

    Which country has passed obnoxious laws like the patriot act?


    Maybe Canada will come and save you.
    We're doing fine, thank you.
  2. #22  
    <<Which country has the highest per capita prison population in the world? Which country has the largest prison population in the world?>>

    Well, on these two related questions... that would be a good thing.

    I'd rather have the thieves and thugs in prison then running around my neighborhood. Would the alternative be letting them out to terrorize law-abiding citizens?

    How about the other alternative, let more of the worst of them sit down in old Sparky the electric chair... then they'd no longer count as part of the prison population, so we'd reduce that number (only to have some people B&Moan about how cruel and inhumane capital punishment is)?
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1 View Post
    <<Which country has the highest per capita prison population in the world? Which country has the largest prison population in the world?>>

    Well, on these two related questions... that would be a good thing.

    I'd rather have the thieves and thugs in prison then running around my neighborhood. Would the alternative be letting them out to terrorize law-abiding citizens?
    Its not really working when USA has the highest murder rate by shooting in the developed world either.

    Surur
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Iran in Lebanon and Palestine.
    The following countries in Afghanistan:
    Belgium, et al.
    Damn, my side hurts from laughing so hard. Good for a chuckle. Thanks!

    And yet, the Taliban and Poppy crop is booming (no pun intended )
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    An oppressive regime doesn't have the right to exist.
    Who gets the holy honor of defining oppressive?
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1 View Post
    In Reference to your sig...

    "When the People fear their government, there is Tyranny; when the government fears the People, there is Liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson

    Could I extrapolate that you would be in favor of the people being at least as well-armed as their government, so that the government can fear them, with liberty as the result? Thus it would be o.k. for the people to be well-armed? Yeah the 2nd Amendment! (This may include nukes and other WMD's)
    Your false premise only delivers a false result. Only the NRA could find the issue of arms within that statement.

    Liberty is the result of a political process, not war.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Your false premise only delivers a false result. Only the NRA could find the issue of arms within that statement.

    Liberty is the result of a political process, not war.
    The people of Thomas Jefferson's era might offer an opposing view in light of what was required for their fledgling nation to gain its liberty.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Which country has the highest per capita prison population in the world? Which country has the largest prison population in the world?
    Surur
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its not really working when USA has the highest murder rate by shooting in the developed world either.

    Surur
    I think most have read and have a pretty good understanding of your views of America, which is fine as everyone is entitled to their views and opinions.

    But I am not sure what the prison population has to do with the increased risk of nuclear fall out on an international level. But if you are able to somehow connect the dots and it does, then this also creeps into the challenges with illegal aliens here in America. Across the nation, it averages that 30% of all local and federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, many of which are in for violent crimes, i.e. murder, physical assault, rape, etc....

    Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

    • In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

    • A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

    • The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

    ................

    in 2000, for example, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. The agency couldn’t find enough pro bono attorneys to represent such an army of criminal aliens (who have extensive due-process rights in contesting deportation) and so would have to request delay after delay. Or enough immigration judges would not be available. In 1997, the INS simply had no record of a whopping 36 percent of foreign-born inmates who had been released from federal and four state prisons without any review of their deportability. They included 1,198 aggravated felons, 80 of whom were soon re-arrested for new crimes.
    http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html

    When an alien criminal gets caught for rape, murder or drug distribution, you pay $1.6 billion annually in prison costs to house, feed and clothe those filling 30 percent of our federal and state prisons
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    The people of Thomas Jefferson's era might offer an opposing view in light of what was required for their fledgling nation to gain its liberty.
    Of the 80+ armed 'interventions' orchestrated by the US internationally in the 20th century, how many resulted in liberty?

    Bonus: The result rhymes with hero.
  10. #30  
    That war does not always result in liberty, does not mean that liberty is not ascertained thereby.
  11. #31  
    <<Its not really working when USA has the highest murder rate by shooting in the developed world either.>>

    You are absolutely right, we need more guns so nobody (sane) would dare shoot us, since we might shoot back! Shades of "Mutually Assured Destruction" to get back on the topic of nukes. It works for nations, why not for cities and towns? Most places that require gun ownership have basically zip crime problems, only the idiots who don't care about being martyrs bother tempting fate. If only those kids or profs at VA Tech could have taken out the (insane) one who went on that killing spree a few weeks ago, less may have died. It's when you have whole countries or underground networks who are kooky (and with bigger WMD guns) that you have to perhaps use your firepower, before they get to use theirs on you.

    As to the other statement...

    I do not remember reading in my history books about how the USA got it's freedom and liberty from the Brits by chatting about it over tea & crumpets. Today the Queen is in the States, cordially addressing the Commonwealth of Virginia's legislature and all is nice and cozy between the Mother Country and her rebellious little child. But back then, we used guns. How would the government fear its people if not because they are armed?
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    But I am not sure what the prison population has to do with the increased risk of nuclear fall out on an international level. But if you are able to somehow connect the dots and it does, then this also creeps into the challenges with illegal aliens here in America. Across the nation, it averages that 30% of all local and federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, many of which are in for violent crimes, i.e. murder, physical assault, rape, etc....

    You know, if you subtract 30% you only drop to 5th place per capita, and to second by numbers (China, with 3 times the population is first). The question was if the population in USA was being oppressed, and by numbers you are persecuting a large proportion of your population, but not making your country much safer. If you make enough laws eventually everyone is a criminal.

    As you know, its of course all about the moral high ground. With the invasion of Iraq, and the aftermath, and fascists changes in America, USA has lost it many years ago now.

    Surur
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1 View Post
    <<Its not really working when USA has the highest murder rate by shooting in the developed world either.>>

    You are absolutely right, we need more guns so nobody (sane) would dare shoot us, since we might shoot back! Shades of "Mutually Assured Destruction" to get back on the topic of nukes. It works for nations, why not for cities and towns? Most places that require gun ownership have basically zip crime problems, only the idiots who don't care about being martyrs bother tempting fate. If only those kids or profs at VA Tech could have taken out the (insane) one who went on that killing spree a few weeks ago, less may have died. It's when you have whole countries or underground networks who are kooky (and with bigger WMD guns) that you have to perhaps use your firepower, before they get to use theirs on you.

    As to the other statement...

    I do not remember reading in my history books about how the USA got it's freedom and liberty from the Brits by chatting about it over tea & crumpets. Today the Queen is in the States, cordially addressing the Commonwealth of Virginia's legislature and all is nice and cozy between the Mother Country and her rebellious little child. But back then, we used guns. How would the government fear its people if not because they are armed?

    It always amazes me when the libs consitently wanna take away our rights, but give other countries and their ILLEGAL ALIENS free reign
  14. backbeat's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    That war does not always result in liberty, does not mean that liberty is not ascertained thereby.
    ... and argument, for argument's sake, is just another tale of bullshyte.
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    How would the government fear its people if not because they are armed?
    The US government fears you because you can purchase a weapon?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You know, if you subtract 30% you only drop to 5th place per capita, and to second by numbers (China, with 3 times the population is first). The question was if the population in USA was being oppressed, and by numbers you are persecuting a large proportion of your population, but not making your country much safer.
    You're arguing that the number of people in prisons is a measure of oppression? Is that because you think imprisonment is an unjust punishment, or because you think most of them are innocent?

    And China would be second, behind North Korea.

    If you make enough laws eventually everyone is a criminal.
    Good thing we don't have too many laws then.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    When is America being liberated then?
    Every election day, a vote at a time...the fact that the results run contrary to desires of a particular group does not mean tyranny.

    Samkin, you need to embrace relativism. You black and white world view will eventually cause you to blow up something.

    Surur
    Relativism is a way to justify acts by ones but not from others; in America relativism thrives through the prism of partisan politics in defiance of any logical discussion of facts.
    Last edited by TreoNewt; 05/03/2007 at 05:34 PM.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The question was if the population in USA was being oppressed, and by numbers you are persecuting a large proportion of your population, but not making your country much safer. If you make enough laws eventually everyone is a criminal.
    I was raised in Spain during Franco's reign, in case you did not know he was a fascist dictator. Things were very different, political dissdents did not fare to well there, many were never heard of again (literally).

    I can tell you by personal experience that you have no idea what oppression is, here you can complain about your goverment, insult and accuse your elected officials constantly, march on the streets in protest and at the end of the day, vote them out of office with out a shot ever been fired.

    There is a reason why so many people form all over the world are willing to do almost anything to get to America despite it's obvious faults; trust me, you should get out more often, is not as bad as you think.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    I was raised in Spain during Franco's reign, in case you did not know he was a fascist dictator. Things were very different, political dissdents did not fare to well there, many were never heard of again (literally).

    I can tell you by personal experience that you have no idea what oppression is, here you can complain about your goverment, insult and accuse your elected officials constantly, march on the streets in protest and at the end of the day, vote them out of office with out a shot ever been fired.
    Fascism starts slowly. There is a growing atmosphere of fear in America, and there are increasing sanctions for not toe-ing the line. Look at the recent Aquateen Hungerforce debacle in Boston, or the kid being expelled from his school for making a map for his video game. Or the professor arrested for putting out his garbage, etc.

    There is a reason why so many people form all over the world are willing to do almost anything to get to America despite it's obvious faults; trust me, you should get out more often, is not as bad as you think.
    This is increasingly less true. At least for tourists visits to America is down 17% since 2001, whereas it increased everywhere else. 70% of visitors fear customs more than the police. They fear being mistaken for terrorists, strip searched, probed, detained in Gitmo, tortured and if they are lucky deported. 20% less French and Japanese come to your shores, because they are scared of the police state it has become, and the lack of right they have if they were suddenly declared enemy combatants. America is probably worse than you imagine.

    Surur
  20.    #40  
    When stating facts as confirmed conclusions, it would be great if you could include the source for the reasons behind it all. Thanks.
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