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  1.    #1  
    Alright, we had a nice little debate over in the "Partial-birth abortion" thread, but since things were getting off-topic (is that possible in an off-topic board?) I figured I'd start a new thread solely for this debate.

    To start off I'll state what I believe and my purpose for this thread.

    I am a believer in God and Jesus the Christ. I believe that the world was made in six days between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. I base that belief on what I read in the Bible, and what creation scientists have found in nature. I am not trying to change anybody's mind with my postings, I'm just in it for the intellectual stimulus. There can be no "winner" in this argument since both sides have grown up believing what they believe, and since both sides rely on faith for their belief.

    This thread may get 100 posts, or it may sink down to the bottom and die. Either way I thought we should have a chance to discuss our scientific, philosophic, and theologic differences.
  2. #2  
    A Young Earth Creationist is very rare these days. Do you believe God created the Earth tabula rasa and the geological features we see were added afterward (e.g. in a massive flood) or do you believe God created the Earth such as to fool as into believing its older than it is (e.g. adding sedimentary layers and metamorphic stone etc)?

    The fist one can be argued against using scientific reasoning, while the later can never be disprove. If you have ultimate power the universe could have been created 10 minutes ago, and there is no way to prove or disprove it either way.

    Surur
  3. #3  
    Is it possible to believe that something got created first, a along time ago and then evolved to be what we have now?

    I wonder how God evolved in that time. (S)HE must be something really cool by now.

    At-least, we know that Jesus died and rose again. Nobody, before or since has had to go through that.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    .I am a believer in God and Jesus the Christ. I believe that the world was made in six days between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. I base that belief on what I read in the Bible, and what creation scientists have found in nature. I am not trying to change anybody's mind with my postings, I'm just in it for the intellectual stimulus. There can be no "winner" in this argument since both sides have grown up believing what they believe, and since both sides rely on faith for their belief.
    If you believe the world was made 6,000 to 10,000 years ago, how do explain the evidence of life existing over 60 million years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    Is it possible to believe that something got created first, a along time ago and then evolved to be what we have now?
    I hope so. Otherwise, I have to find something else to believe in...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Alright, we had a nice little debate over in the "Partial-birth abortion" thread, but since things were getting off-topic (is that possible in an off-topic board?) I figured I'd start a new thread solely for this debate.

    To start off I'll state what I believe and my purpose for this thread.

    I am a believer in God and Jesus the Christ. I believe that the world was made in six days between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. I base that belief on what I read in the Bible, and what creation scientists have found in nature. I am not trying to change anybody's mind with my postings, I'm just in it for the intellectual stimulus. There can be no "winner" in this argument since both sides have grown up believing what they believe, and since both sides rely on faith for their belief.

    This thread may get 100 posts, or it may sink down to the bottom and die. Either way I thought we should have a chance to discuss our scientific, philosophic, and theologic differences.
    Your posts about evolution in the other thread are so full of fundamental errors about basic facts (e.g. thermodynamics) and show total absence of knowledge about evolution (e.g. intermediate species) that I wouldn't know where to begin with explaining.

    Besides, how dare you claim the Bible says earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old? Where does it say that? Why do you offend the 99.8% of Christians who believe otherwise (or, more correctly, know better)?

    The great majority of Christians - e.g. Catholic Christians who make up more than half of all Christians - have no issues with evolution. The Catholic leader has made it infallibly clear that evolution and Christian beliefs do not contradict each other, and rightly so.

    What makes you think you, a member of a tiny group with a - may I say extremist - belief system when it comes to scientific results, is right, and the rest of the world (both scientific and Christian or otherwise religious) is wrong?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. PSB22's Avatar
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    #6  
    Go read "the god delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Now, granted, Dawkins can be a bit biased some times, but he really makes some very cogent arguments against the existence of god. The best one is this...

    Basically, the only way for complexity to occur in a system is if it comes from simplicity. If you want to explain complexity (e.g. of life) by invoking the existence of a "creator", then it is a given that the creator must be infinitely more complex than the creation. Thus, all you've succeeded in doing is taking the argument and moving it back up the ladder. Instead of asking "where did life come from" (from god is your answer), then we now have to ask "OK, where did god come from". This approach does ZERO to enlighten mankind, and just serves up a ready-made answer than millions of people too stupid to figure it out for tehmselves are willing to accept.

    A religion is just a cult with more members!
  7. #7  
    Won't that always be the question? Where did {insert preferred point of origin} come from?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Alright, we had a nice little debate over in the "Partial-birth abortion" thread, but since things were getting off-topic (is that possible in an off-topic board?) I figured I'd start a new thread solely for this debate.

    To start off I'll state what I believe and my purpose for this thread.

    I am a believer in God and Jesus the Christ. I believe that the world was made in six days between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. I base that belief on what I read in the Bible, and what creation scientists have found in nature. I am not trying to change anybody's mind with my postings, I'm just in it for the intellectual stimulus. There can be no "winner" in this argument since both sides have grown up believing what they believe, and since both sides rely on faith for their belief.

    This thread may get 100 posts, or it may sink down to the bottom and die. Either way I thought we should have a chance to discuss our scientific, philosophic, and theologic differences.

    I don't know why you bother. You realize that all the Atheist kooks on this board will do nothing but mock and ridicule your beliefs. I don't know how you expect this thread to be any different than any other.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. backbeat's Avatar
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    #9  
    Adam & Eve ... literal? Yes or No?
  10. ktm97's Avatar
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    #10  
    I am a believer in Jeff Hawkins and Palm. I believe the Treo was made and concieved many years ago. I base this belief on what I read in the Treo Central forums, and what the posters have led us to believe. I'm just in it for the humor. There can be no Winner in this argument of Palm vs. Windows, since both sides have grown up believing that their system is the best. Amen
  11. #11  
    LOL...nice!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ktm97 View Post
    I am a believer in Jeff Hawkins and Palm. I believe the Treo was made and concieved many years ago. I base this belief on what I read in the Treo Central forums, and what the posters have led us to believe. I'm just in it for the humor. There can be no Winner in this argument of Palm vs. Windows, since both sides have grown up believing that their system is the best. Amen
    The Holy Treo-nity?
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gamble View Post
    The Holy Treo-nity?
    That was bad...
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    That was bad...
    Theology is a messy business.
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gamble View Post
    Theology is a messy business.
    Especially here on TC...
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion View Post
    I don't know why you bother. You realize that all the Atheist kooks on this board will do nothing but mock and ridicule your beliefs. I don't know how you expect this thread to be any different than any other.
    Well, calling everyone who doesn't believe in God a "kook" certainly won't make intelligent discussion any easier.

    Chris
  17. #17  
    I posted some responses to your last posts over in the other thread, Musicman. Sorry, I did it before I saw the discussion had moved here.

    Chris
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    I am a believer in God and Jesus the Christ.
    The existence of the divine can not be proven or disproven by science. AS such, it is a matter of faith. Whether someone chooses to believe in God, Gods, the flying spaghetti monster, or whatever is a matter for personal reflection and development.

    As such, I am in no way going to try to argue against the existance of God scientifically. It can't be done. For people who do believe in a divine being, I wish them the best in their faith, and I hope their faith brings them comfort and helps them when they need it.

    And for the record, I am an atheist.

    However, individual faith does not preclude a belief in science/evolution. As clulup points out, many, many Christians do believe in evolution, so the belief in a Christian diety does not preclude the belief in evolution.

    I believe that the world was made in six days between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. I base that belief on what I read in the Bible, and what creation scientists have found in nature.
    This is what precludes a belief in evolution - a literal interpretation of the Bible. And because this literal interpretation is grounded in faith, there is no way to approach it in a matter to disprove it.

    I am not trying to change anybody's mind with my postings, I'm just in it for the intellectual stimulus.
    AS you said, there is little chance to change people's mind. I simply try to address misconceptions about evolution, correct common false impression, etc. It is up to the individual to decide what to do with that information.

    There can be no "winner" in this argument since both sides have grown up believing what they believe, and since both sides rely on faith for their belief.
    Not entirely true. I know many people who have changed their belief at some point in their post-childhood days (say, after turning 20 or so). But you are correct, most people are set in their ways.

    This thread may get 100 posts, or it may sink down to the bottom and die. Either way I thought we should have a chance to discuss our scientific, philosophic, and theologic differences.
    Always happy to do so.

    Chris
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion View Post
    I don't know why you bother. You realize that all the Atheist kooks on this board will do nothing but mock and ridicule your beliefs. I don't know how you expect this thread to be any different than any other.
    No need to feel sorry. He has no problem with depicting the other side as naive fools:
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Right. Exactly. If they had buried that specimen and a paleantologist had come along later and found it, he probably would have said something like, "This has all the characteristics of a million year old fossil, so it must be!"
    Still, I would like to know where in the Bible it says earth is 6-10,000 years old, and why the great majority of other Christians are too stupid, ignorant or whatever to realise.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ktm97 View Post
    There can be no Winner in this argument of Palm vs. Windows, since both sides have grown up believing that their system is the best. Amen
    You are so caught in your Windeo-Palmian worldview, it's a shame. There are also others who believe in Symbian, just that you know!!!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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