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  1. #661  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gamble View Post
    Theology is a messy business.
    You are kidding, right. Are you talking about the Mother of all sciences?
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    #662  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    I am sort of disturbed by the general "bashing" of religion and theists in this thread.

    Chris
    To clarify, it has been long established that there are no genuine theists in this argument, but apologists and pretenders. To not examine this is to show disrespect toward the topic, and toward those who take the time and trouble to treat the subject responsibly. Those with such enmity toward critical thought have revealed themselves for what they are. We all know them by their multiple names as this is a black-and-white issue.
  3. #663  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Sorry, clulup, I was on vacation with my family.

    I would like to answer your question with another question............
    Which is by way of saying that you would not like to answer the questions at all. Why not? The questions seem straight forward enough. They go to the heart of the matter. You have the majority, at least of Americans, on your side. You have tradition on your side. You have received wisdom and special revelation on your side. You have the comforting answer on your side. You could appeal to all those things for your answers.

    I suspect that you do not because you know that they will not carry the day.
    They did not make the earth flat nor the sun revolve around the earth. They will not make the earth new, the center of the universe, nor man created out of whole cloth.

    It is useless to answer you for we have only evidence on our side. It seems that there will never be enough of that for you to even take notice of, much less be convinced by.
  4. #664  
    The sign...
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  5. #665  
    of the...
    Last edited by pdxtreo; 06/04/2007 at 12:08 AM.
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  6. #666  
    BEAST!!!
    Last edited by pdxtreo; 06/04/2007 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Accuracy.
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  7. #667  
    Beelzebub
  8. #668  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    ............It is useless to answer you for we have only evidence on our side. It seems that there will never be enough of that for you to even take notice of, much less be convinced by.
    It is kind of sad that the corpus of evidence has been subsumed under the name of a hypothesis. We have trouble seeing through the label.
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    #669  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Beelzebub
    I've always wondered why the modern essence of America requires the existence of a boogyman, in one form or another. At least that's been the case since post-WWII. A critical thinking person must wonder how it could've been that America had been such a great nation for almost 200 years prior. HHmmmm . . .
  10. #670  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    So, I am still waiting for answers from you or somebody else among the 55% of US citizens who believe god made man in his present form and there was no evolution:

    As pointed out in this thread, there is no shortage of scientific proof for evolution and for earth being billions of years old, not thousands (note: a one-million-fold difference - not a likely scientific error to start off with). Each year, thousands of biologists, geologists and other scientists graduate from universities in the US and the rest of the world without a trace of doubt, based on what they have studied both in theory in practical experiments, that evolution is what happened on earth, and that earth is billions of years old.

    Since their convictions contradict your beliefs, why do you think they are all wrong?
    Did they not study correctly?
    Are they not intelligent enough?
    Are they brainwashed? Naive?
    Is science a huge conspiracy producing false evidence for evolution?
    Other reasons I didn't think of?

    I'd honestly like to know.
    Still nothing. Musicman247 is around, but he, too, prefers not to deal with the simple questions I have asked. The facts of life obviously cannot be aligned with worldviews such as creationism and young earth. Trying to twist the facts and the evidence for evolution has its limits.

    Hopefully, the silence means that he and others are now realising that a literal belief in the bible cannot align with what was found thanks to god-given (for them) intelligence and reason: that earth is billions of years old and that evolution is what has been happening over the past billions of years.

    The good news of course is that being a devout Christian does not depend on a literal belief in the bible, and in turning off the brain when it comes to how the creation of earth is described in Genesis, written thousands of years ago when people had extremely limited knowledge. The question remains why so many in the US claim otherwise.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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    #671  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    The good news of course is that being a devout Christian does not depend on a literal belief in the bible, and in turning off the brain when it comes to how the creation of earth is described in Genesis, written thousands of years ago when people had extremely limited knowledge. The question remains why so many in the US claim otherwise.
    Just as proven to be the case with the former-Soviet Union, the only way the US could fall to its knees is to implode. Without a nationalized boogyman, the military-industrial economy would cease to exist which would cause the US to fall on its sword. In other words, the US cannot afford to be at peace in the world. The American cult of christianity relies upon the belief that the purpose of this nation's existence it to spread the cult of christian-Capitalism throughout the world, at the barrel of a gun, if necessary, in order to save it. Jesus wouldn't stand for this being done in his name, if he were alive today, as it is a perverted abomination of the belief system he created.
  12. #672  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Just as proven to be the case with the former-Soviet Union, the only way the US could fall to its knees is to implode. Without a nationalized boogyman, the military-industrial economy would cease to exist which would cause the US to fall on its sword. In other words, the US cannot afford to be at peace in the world. The American cult of christianity relies upon the belief that the purpose of this nation's existence it to spread the cult of christian-Capitalism throughout the world, at the barrel of a gun, if necessary, in order to save it. Jesus wouldn't stand for this being done in his name, if he were alive today, as it is a perverted abomination of the belief system he created.
    The purpose of the boogyman is to maintain the power of the bureaucracy. Administrations come and go; the bureaucracy goes on forever. It is they who identify the boogeyman. As soon as the Soviet Union fell, they began to beat the terrorism drum. It is working just the way they want it too; to say that they intend it is too strong.
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    #673  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    The purpose of the boogyman is to maintain the power of the bureaucracy. Administrations come and go; the bureaucracy goes on forever. It is they who identify the boogeyman. As soon as the Soviet Union fell, they began to beat the terrorism drum. It is working just the way they want it too; to say that they intend it is too strong.
    You say bureaucracy ... I say Military-Industrial Economy. Same engine.
  14. #674  
    I must confess, fear does seem rather effective at enducing one to cede rights and responsiblities.
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    #675  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I must confess, fear does seem rather effective at enducing one to cede rights and responsiblities.
    ... as well as reason and critical thought.

    You see, if the US hadn't provided cover for certain 'valuable' Nazi assets, we may have never learned that history lesson, as taught by Goering.

    "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
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