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  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Why do I do this if I only think the world will be around a few hundred (or thousand) years? Because God told Adam and Eve to tend the garden that He gave them. That was the first job anyone was ever given, and so it is still important today.
    Good answer.

    Surur
  2. #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    It does not say in Genesis that God gave us dominion over bacteria. It is highly unlikely that Noah took marsupials or penguins on the ark.
    murray, if you understand the theory of evolution, you understand that it applies to all living things.
  3. #443  
    As soon as the christians and atheists come together and realize that we've all being duped and exploited its going to be a hell of a choir !
  4. backbeat's Avatar
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    #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by byronchurch View Post
    As soon as the christians and atheists come together and realize that we've all being duped and exploited its going to be a hell of a choir !
    Amen, Bruda!
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    murray, if you understand the theory of evolution, you understand that it applies to all living things.
    Indeed. Evolution does. I was just noting that there are a few gaps in Genesis.
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Since the land mass of the earth was once joined together (even non-theists believe this) called Pangea, all the animals lived on the same continent.

    Yes, the Bible supports Pangea. in Genesis 10:25 there is mentioned a man who was named "Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided" The word divided in that passage is a word that means "to separate by water".
    It is true there once was a joined super-continent called Pangea, only that was 250 million years ago according to facts totally undisputed by real world scientists - not a few thousand years ago. It seems rather silly to believe in some fundamental parts of geology but not in others, it would be like saying "I believe in Luke 7, 9 and 13, but not in Luke 4, 12 and 20".

    What young earth creationists don't understand is that different fields of science are linked to each other, and that the results of one field are consistent with the results of the others. E.g. geology (continental drift over hundreds of millions of years) is consistent with biology (evolution, speciation due to the separation of continents). The major part of all scientific results would have to be wrong if earth indeed was only a few thousand years old.

    Those who truly believe in young earth and creationism should really be strongly advised to stay away from everything modern such as medicine, computers, cars and the like, because all of that is based on the same devilish and interdependent principles of SCIENCE!!!!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  7. #447  
    This is very true, and don't seem to be understood by many theists. Its all connected. Mineral deposits and the age of the earth and the location of oil and the fossils found etc etc.

    Surur
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    I agree. Astounding, indeed. And uniquely American. The Europeans laugh at those reports.

    Atheists do bad things. They take responsibility for them. They never say, "I killed those protestants|catholics|jews|homosexuals|communists|abortionists|witches|atheists|secular-humanists for God."

    Be afraid of "true believers." There is no protection from those who do evil in God's name.
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    It doesn't help that Semitic religions themselves seems steeped in "the desire for money, power, sex, revenge, political gains, land, etc" (I dont know about far eastern religions unfortunately). Maybe all organized human activity is about "the desire for money, power, sex, revenge, political gains, land, etc" and will eventually be corrupted to that purpose.

    Maybe thats the saving grace of atheism, not having a church.

    Surur
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    I read a survey where as a whole, the group that "America" trusted the least was...atheists. Beyond terrorists, beyond Muslims, the atheists where the group that were garnered the least trust, they were the group that the most people answered "I would be most upset if my son/daughter married a...", etc.

    It was quite astounding!


    Here is the link link

    Chris
    Sigh...

    Paraphrasing Marthin Luther King, Jr...

    I dream of a day when my chlidren will be judged, not by their religious believes but by the content of their character...

    And to that I add...

    As is character and integrity - not believes or race - what truly defines our value as humans.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  9.    #449  
    clulup, that DNA model you have spinning as your avatar; how could something that complex arise from nothing?
  10. backbeat's Avatar
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    #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    Sigh...

    Paraphrasing Marthin Luther King, Jr...

    I dream of a day when my chlidren will be judged, not by their religious believes but by the content of their character...

    And to that I add...

    As is character and integrity - not believes or race - what truly defines our value as humans.
    Lacking action, it will always be just a dream. Making this great nation respond proactively is the greatest challenge of its history which has been rarely met. If there should ever be a national policy of Preemption, it should be here. Lacking this foresight, the nation will only respond reactively. Understanding this, what does your dream amount to?
  11. #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    clulup, that DNA model you have spinning as your avatar; how could something that complex arise from nothing?
    The Blind watchmaker again?

    Surur
  12. #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    clulup, that DNA model you have spinning as your avatar; how could something that complex arise from nothing?
    As if ANYBODY more or less knowledgeable in science EVER claimed DNA arose from nothing. DNA is a chemical molecule synthesized in organisms.

    Care to explain how Noah managed to gather polar bears from the Artic, penguins from the south pole and Bengal tigers from India in just a few days and have them on a boat for many months, together with two of - literally - every animal species on earth? What did they feed from, in your view?

    I wonder why god gave us intelligence if we are supposed to take that story literally...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. backbeat's Avatar
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    #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    As if ANYBODY more or less knowledgeable in science EVER claimed DNA arose from nothing. DNA is a chemical molecule synthesized in organisms.
    Wasn't it created by religious faith instead?
  14. #454  
    I have a question for people who support the idea of intelligent design.

    If we (and all life) were designed by an intelligence, why are there so many un-intelligent aspects to our (and other animal) designs?

    I mean, if you had to design a person, why would you give them an appendix. In plant eating animals, the appendix is larger and helps to break down cellulose. But we can't do that, so all an appendix can do for us is occasionally rupture and cause death.

    Why do some species pf blind fish still develop eyes, only to have those eyes degrade and cease to function during their development?

    Why do dandylions, which reproduce asexually, have sex organs?

    Why do whales have small remnants of leg bones on their skelenton? Along the same lines, why do we have a tail bone?

    Lastly, why put one of the most senstiive organs in a mans body hanging in a small flesh sack unprotected and easilly exposed to damage or blunt force trauma, causing extreme pain?

    There are numerous organisms that if someone "designed" they could have come up with a better pattern or template.

    Chris
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    Sigh...

    Paraphrasing Marthin Luther King, Jr...

    I dream of a day when my chlidren will be judged, not by their religious believes but by the content of their character...

    And to that I add...

    As is character and integrity - not believes or race - what truly defines our value as humans.
    Not likely to happen as long as the True Believers insist upon trying to impose their beliefs upon others using the coercive power of the state. It seems to be in the nature of true belief to resort to force.

    It is a shame that our state schools have become so politiicized that teachers are afraid to teach. We cannot teach biology as science nor "The Bible" as culture. We cannot teach evolution and creationism without tilting the argument in favor of one side or the other. Every now and then a group of True Believers goes after Shakespeare or Mark Twain. Both history and science are so sterilized that our children are bored by the two subjects that will best equip them to live in the world and enjoy a fulfilling life. Should it really be so surprising that state schools are losing the support of the public.

    There is no idea so dangerous that it cannot be discussed, that should not be allowed to compete in the market place of ideas, as long as the contest stays there. The problem only arises when the adherents of one idea want to make it the primary, not to say, sole, basis of law, or worse, takes up arms against the heathen, pagan, atheist, or other non-believer.
  16.    #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    As if ANYBODY more or less knowledgeable in science EVER claimed DNA arose from nothing. DNA is a chemical molecule synthesized in organisms.

    Care to explain how Noah managed to gather polar bears from the Artic, penguins from the south pole and Bengal tigers from India in just a few days and have them on a boat for many months, together with two of - literally - every animal species on earth? What did they feed from, in your view?

    I wonder why god gave us intelligence if we are supposed to take that story literally...
    It is stated in Genesis that the animals came to Noah. He did not have to wrangle them.

    I'm sure they fed off the food that Noah stored in the ginormous ark.

    It's interesting that all over the world we find references to a great flood and one family that survived.

    http://nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
  17.    #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    I have a question for people who support the idea of intelligent design.

    If we (and all life) were designed by an intelligence, why are there so many un-intelligent aspects to our (and other animal) designs?

    I mean, if you had to design a person, why would you give them an appendix. In plant eating animals, the appendix is larger and helps to break down cellulose. But we can't do that, so all an appendix can do for us is occasionally rupture and cause death.

    Why do some species pf blind fish still develop eyes, only to have those eyes degrade and cease to function during their development?

    Why do dandylions, which reproduce asexually, have sex organs?

    Why do whales have small remnants of leg bones on their skelenton? Along the same lines, why do we have a tail bone?

    Lastly, why put one of the most senstiive organs in a mans body hanging in a small flesh sack unprotected and easilly exposed to damage or blunt force trauma, causing extreme pain?

    There are numerous organisms that if someone "designed" they could have come up with a better pattern or template.

    Chris
    Why does the human body have cells in it that only have the purpose of carrying off dead cells?

    Why does blood clot?

    Why do you experience pleasure from sexual relations?

    There are numerous things that happen every day that we take for granted, even though they seem like they have been designed.

    I do not know the answer to your examples, but I would guess that in each of those instances there is a purpose that we do not yet comprehend.
  18. #458  
    Intelligent design does not allow us to make predictions because no one can predict the will of God. Evolutionary theory allows us to make predictions which have led to applications such as new antibiotics which have saved millions of lives. Personal beliefs aside, I do not understand the motivation behind someone who would ridicule others for believing in evolutionary theory, especially in light of its usefulness to the rest of humanity.
  19. #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman247 View Post
    Why does the human body have cells in it that only have the purpose of carrying off dead cells?

    Why does blood clot?

    Why do you experience pleasure from sexual relations?

    There are numerous things that happen every day that we take for granted, even though they seem like they have been designed.
    Evolution can explain those things.

    But for someone to have "intelligently designed" organisms, it seems that in many cases there are aspects of the physiology that are not "intelligently designed" at all. That even for some cases where we KNOW why something is there, there are better ways to have designed something.

    Chris
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    Evolution can explain those things.

    But for someone to have "intelligently designed" organisms, it seems that in many cases there are aspects of the physiology that are not "intelligently designed" at all. That even for some cases where we KNOW why something is there, there are better ways to have designed something.

    Chris
    On the other hand, the human body is a much better design than many of the computer applications that I use. Most of them evolved too.

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