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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dim-Ize View Post
    We were created by Him and for Him. We were created to serve God and obey God, and in doing so - He has a plan for us. A beautiful plan. He loves everyone of us and He desires that none should perish. Yet, when we reject His message and reject His Son - we reject Him.
    Only problem is (well, actually there are many) every cult since the beginning of time has claimed the same authenticity using the same justifications, just under a different brandname.
  2. backbeat's Avatar
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    #342  
    Ape Gestures Offer Clues To The Evolution Of Human Communication

    Working with two groups of bonobos (13 animals) and two groups of chimpanzees (34 animals), Yerkes researchers Amy Pollick, PhD, and Frans de Waal, PhD, distinguished 31 manual gestures and 18 facial/vocal signals. They found both species used facial/vocal signals similarly, but the same did not hold true for the manual gestures. Rather, the researchers found both within and between species the manual gestures were less closely tied to a particular emotion and, thereby, serve a more adaptable function. For example, a single gesture may communicate an entirely different message depending upon the social context in which it is used.

    "A chimpanzee may stretch out an open hand to another as a signal for support, whereas the same gesture toward a possessor of food signals a desire to share," said Pollick. "A scream, however, is a typical response for victims of intimidation, threat or attack. This is so for both bonobos and chimpanzees, and suggests the vocalization is relatively invariant," Pollick continued.

    By studying similar types of communication in closely related species, researchers are able to determine shared ancestry. We know gestures are evolutionarily younger than facial expressions and vocalizations, as shown by their presence in apes and humans but not in monkeys. "A gesture that occurs in bonobos and chimpanzees as well as humans likely was present in the last common ancestor," said Pollick. "A good example of a shared gesture is the open-hand begging gesture, used by both apes and humans. This gesture can be used for food, if there is food around, but it also can be used to beg for help, for support, for money and so on. It's meaning is context-dependent," added de Waal.

    Looking for further distinctions between species, the researchers found bonobos use gestures more flexibly than do chimpanzees. "Different groups of bonobos used gestures in specific contexts less consistently than did different groups of chimpanzees," said Pollick. The researcher's findings also suggest bonobos and chimpanzees engage in multi-modal communication, combining their gestures with facial expressions and vocalizations to communicate a message. "While chimpanzees produce more of these combinations, bonobos respond to them more often. This finding suggests the bonobo is a better model of symbolic communication in our early ancestors," concluded Pollick.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0430181209.htm

    Thanks to 'Advance The Man' for his scientific resource.
  3. #343  
    As I understand the gender of god is not defined in the Bible, however an argument as previously presented indicating that man (as opposed to woman) was created in god's image therefore god is likely to be male is compeling
    Actually the text describes both male and female as being created in the image and likeness of God.
  4. #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Actually the text describes both male and female as being created in the image and likeness of God.
    This is only true in the first version of creation as depicted on Gen 1:27.

    On the second version he creates Adam first out of the dirt (Gen 2:7) and later he created Eve out of Adam's rib (Gen 2:22).
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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    #345  
    'The text' also speaks of talking mules, people being turned into pillars of salt by god himself, a nation of people walking through the dry bedrock of the Red Sea, burning bushes that aren't consumed, water pouring from rocks after being spoken to, manna from heaven, etc. All from the same author. Moses was trippin'!
  6. #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    This is only true in the first version of creation as depicted on Gen 1:27.

    On the second version he creates Adam first out of the dirt (Gen 2:7) and later he created Eve out of Adam's rib (Gen 2:22).
    I believe the source documents contain different verbs in communicating create (chapter 1) and formed (chapter 2).

    The chapter one account presents male and female as having the same principle characteristics--image and likeness of God, dominion over the fellow creatures of the earth. It is in their physical manifestation that the distinction is made apparent.
  7. #347  
    "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen 1:27

    "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

    "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." Gen 2:22

    The verbs used in this translation are different, that is true (i.e., created, formed, made), however the actions described appear similar; all seem to describe the creation of human form.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

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  8. backbeat's Avatar
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    #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    'source documents' ... 'the texts'
    Cite, please.
  9. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dim-Ize View Post
    Excellent question, Backbeat! I'm no scholar (I wish I was) - but, I will share some scriptures with you.

    Solomon, the wisest man to ever live, writes in Ecclesiastes 12:13 -

    "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man's all." (NKJV)

    For reference, here is another translation:

    "This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man." (ASV)

    To fear God is one of the major themes of Ecclesiastes (and of wisdom literature in the OT). To fear God is to respond to Him in awe, reverence, and wonder, to serve Him in purity of action, and to shun evil and any worship of anything else in His universe.

    Keep His commandments: The commandments of the Law are in view here. Jesus summed them (the OT Law) up as to, "love the LORD your God" and "your neighbor as yourself." (Matt 22:34-40).

    Man's all: We are whole or complete only when we fear God and obey His commandments. If we follow what this book has said, we will have a relationship with God and find life in Him. Otherwise, we will be separated from Him for all of eternity.

    Ecc: 12:14 reads - "For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil."

    Judgment: This same teaching is echoed by the apostle Paul in 2 Cor. 5:10. Death is not the end. All of life will be reviewed by our righteous LORD (see at 3:17). Life must be lived through faith with the values of the eternal God in view in order to receive eternal life.

    So, "why was man created"? I think that is a very wonderful question. We were created by Him and for Him. We were created to serve God and obey God, and in doing so - He has a plan for us. A beautiful plan. He loves everyone of us and He desires that none should perish. Yet, when we reject His message and reject His Son - we reject Him.
    This is the perfect description of an abusive relationship, and I am glad I dont have any part in it.

    Surur
  10. #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen 1:27

    "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

    "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." Gen 2:22

    The verbs used in this translation are different, that is true (i.e., created, formed, made), however the actions described appear similar; all seem to describe the creation of human form.
    created: primary definition is create, shape, form

    formed: primary definition is form, fashion, frame

    made: primary definition is build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue

    The terms are synonyms, but the initial denotes origination, while the second and third denote construction.
    Last edited by shopharim; 05/02/2007 at 07:09 AM.
  11. backbeat's Avatar
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    #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This is the perfect description of an abusive relationship, and I am glad I dont have any part in it.

    Surur
    Pretty much. And a co-dependent abusive relationship, at that.
  12. #352  
    Agreed. Looks to me that god needs the services of a mental health professional.
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  13. #353  
    Luke 23:24
  14. #354  
    If anyone is abusive in that relationship it is us, not God.

    He's the boss, the big Kahuna, El Supreamo... and we give him such little respect and obedience (which he deserves by the way, more than anyone else ever has). Yet he is patient and generous to us, granting us more grace than any of us ever deserve.

    But when some will not believe, maybe it's better to quote Shop...
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  15. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1 View Post
    If anyone is abusive in that relationship it is us, not God.

    He's the boss, the big Kahuna, El Supreamo... and we give him such little respect and obedience (which he deserves by the way, more than anyone else ever has).
    Why? Did He struggle against great adversity to create us, or were we just a mere afterthought for an all powerful being? Do you automatically respect those you fear?

    Yet he is patient and generous to us, granting us more grace than any of us ever deserve.
    How so? Plague, natural disaster and famine are all acts of God. Thank god he's not less patient. Imagine what a hell the world would be then...

    I'm sorry, but the God of the old Testament is clearly evil, and did not display much of the grace you talk so much about. The God of the new testament is clearly a much weaker being, even emasculated. Either way not much that deserves respect.

    Surur
  16. #356  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Thank god he's not less patient. Imagine what a hell the world would be then...
    Amen!
  17. backbeat's Avatar
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    #357  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I'm sorry, but the God of the old Testament is clearly evil, and did not display much of the grace you talk so much about. The God of the new testament is clearly a much weaker being, even emasculated. Either way not much that deserves respect.

    Surur
    Abusive ... Co-dependent ... and BiPolar?
  18. #358  
    Here are some interesting points of interest that I asked on another forum talking about the wonders of the Universe:

    If the universe is 14 billions years old, as many Big Bang theorists suggest, that indicates a point of creation. Then these questions comes to mind:
    • Was everything created out of nothing?
    • If not then what was the Universe created from and when and how was that material and/or object(s) created?
    • Is there a point of an "Ultimate Creation"?
    • If not then has matter always existed having never been created?
  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Here are some interesting points of interest that I asked on another forum talking about the wonders of the Universe:

    If the universe is 14 billions years old, as many Big Bang theorists suggest, that indicates a point of creation. Then these questions comes to mind:
    • Was everything created out of nothing?
    • If not then what was the Universe created from and when and how was that material and/or object(s) created?
    • Is there a point of an "Ultimate Creation"?
    • If not then has matter always existed having never been created?
    Surely all those questions would apply equally to some Divine creator also. True?

    If you can accept that these questions are unanswered regarding God, why hassle the scientists struggling to answer the same questions? It in no way invalidates anything.

    Surur
  20. #360  
    I thought they are valid questions for anyone, especially science. Am I wrong?

    The other discussion had nothing to do with God, it was looking at several aspects from a science point of view.

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