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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    Sigh..... NO His post regarded the motivation or at least both sides argument as being LIFE and more specifically in this case- the life of a child.
    *sigh*

    As Fair & Balanced as I expected. His post was about the generic political process of "In our culture, the debate of principles, practices and procedures, can leave the impression that parties are so far apart."

    So much for the hope for Purple.
  2. #62  
    In his post, I think the term 'parties' was used in the contract sense (i.e. those who have an interest), not the political (i.e. Dem, Rep, Green, Lib...).

    He agrees that the country is likely more purple than red or blue, but that the nature of discourse in this culture tends torwards forcing one into one camp or another.

    He also believes that while on any given topic those purple people tend to show more of their redness or blueness in discussion, when it comes to actual real life circumstances, most of us tend to operate the same way--we will fight to save ourselves, our spouses and our children and dare anyone to try to stop us or question our resolve.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In his post, I think the term 'parties' was used in the contract sense (i.e. those who have an interest), not the political (i.e. Dem, Rep, Green, Lib...).

    He agrees that the country is likely more purple than red or blue, but that the nature of discourse in this culture tends torwards forcing one into one camp or another.

    He also believes that while on any given topic those purple people tend to show more of their redness or blueness in discussion, when it comes to actual real life circumstances, most of us tend to operate the same way--we will fight to save ourselves, our spouses and our children and dare anyone to try to stop us or question our resolve.

    So I read your post to be more "poetic" than was intended? I still don't think so, but in anycase...

    My appologies for the confusion
  4. backbeat's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    He agrees that the country is likely more purple than red or blue, but that the nature of discourse in this culture tends torwards forcing one into one camp or another.
    The nature of discourse in this country does not exist in a vacuum nor by accident. Today, that nature's elements consist of money, special (fringe) interests, and willing political machinery to manipulate a willing public at the leveraged point in time necessary for political advantage.

    ...we will fight to save ourselves, our spouses and our children and dare anyone to try to stop us or question our resolve.
    The liberty of individual reasoning skills for all life/privacy matters taking priority over fringe-agenda-driven politics and judicial directives, just as our Deist Founding Fathers hoped.
  5. #65  
    I would be interested in understanding what interests you find to be on the fringes, as compared to the mainstream.
  6. backbeat's Avatar
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    #66  
    ^ In a word? K Street, who wasn't elected to dogcatcher!
  7. #67  
    I love watching these things when Shop gets involved
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    I love wathcing these things whe Shop get involved
    Ummmm...drinks with lunch?
  9. #69  
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't edit my posts when you quote them
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't edit my posts when you quote them
    That's playing dirty...
  11. #71  
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by awerry View Post
    Some conservative estimates put the number at over twice that amount.

    However, the actual numbers are irrelevant IMO. The act of killing even ONE child this way isn't wrong if there were a million partial birth abortions per year nor is it acceptable to destroy viable human life this way simply because this procedure is done a mere 2,200 per year.

    Numbers don't determine morality. Rape wouldn't cease to be wrong if the number of rapes fell below 2,000 a year.
    I pointed out out the numbers only to point out the fact that the legislature spent the time and energy to prevent something that happens very rarely.

    Good point on the rape...but if it did happen very rarely, would it seem odd that they spend all the time and money legislating it?
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  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Specific malady not withstanding, do you really want society making decisions on how long you get to live based on the cost of your maintenance?

    It's easy to make a case based on the extremes. However, it is the impact on the normal range that is worrisome.

    Sure, you're in decent shape today (at least it seems so from your picture). But, what if you break your finger? Should we keep you around? Ok, then. What if you lose your sight? Or, maybe your arm? Become paralyzed from the waist down?
    It HAS to be at least a consideration. Otherwise if we were required to do everything remotely possible to save someone's life, the system would likely bankrupt and people who needed something simple would not have the resources to be serviced.

    I suspect that hospitals ALREADY make these kinds of decisions based on cost/benefit.

    What I specifically want for myself probably is much different than what I would want 'universalized' for society. I suspect many of us feel the same. If I was sick, I would want any amount of resources spent to cure me. But if we did that for everyone, then there wouldnt be enough resources for everyone else who gets sick.
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  14. backbeat's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho View Post
    Good point on the rape...but if it did happen very rarely, would it seem odd that they spend all the time and money legislating it?
    Or more specifically, more time and money is expended by lobbyists which causes our time and money to be spent legislating niche medical morality.
  15.    #75  
    Beautiful children. Also, I do not place cost above life; if I did, then I would openly support abortion. I appreciate the statement concerning the woman's life in danger; however, that is not the norm and if one decides to kill the child to save the mother's life, then one can save the child to save the mother's life.

    Life is precious. In 1991 I was involved in a crash that left me dead as far as the responding paramedic unit. Thirty minutes after the initial EMS response, a second ambulance was requested - I moved. My pregnant wife was injured, from left handed to right handed and she was told by the ER doctor that the viability of the child was in question. The child is now 16.

    No, I do not have a woman's prospective, but I do have the prospective of a father with 3 children. Had my wife decided that her life was more important that that of her unborn child, then I would have supported her decision. She decided otherwise and God was our source of comfort and support. Our lives, mine and my lovely wife's, were hell for two years in many regards. We never gave up hope and faith. We never blamed anyone other than the driver of the other vehicle, a bus driver that decided it was ok to coast through a stop sign during a rain storm. I blamed one person; others often times blame many.

    The child with a handicap is not the norm, though not that rare. God gave us so many talents and the ability to use them. Life is precious.

    To state the evilness of a right wing court is to also acknowledge the evilness of a left wing court. I do not advocate the death of a child for research, those on the left do and I consider that to be evil. Different outlooks; however, statements like "This new Rightist Supreme Court has already passed the rightwing litmus test. Now, they will deem that a $ equals free speech" is filled with hate and is frankly untrue.

    Ben
  16. backbeat's Avatar
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    #76  
    ^ Righties have been attempting to make political contributions a free speech matter for years and years. This new Supreme Court isn't hearing the cases before it (or concluding decisions) just by happenstance, otherwise, you're naive beyond belief.

    No hate here whatsoever. Just reality.

    http://www.law.stanford.edu/publicat...n/518us604.pdf
  17.    #77  
    And we conveniently forget George Sorus and his millions with moveon.org (not always telling the truth) and we conveniently forget people like Rosie with her rants (another story) and we conveniently forget about many Hollywood starts who are paid to sing, not to talk. Free speech? Take a look at H.R. 984 after that then remember reality.

    Ben
  18. backbeat's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    H.R. 984

    Ben
    Yes? The resolution that (R)Chris Shays and (R)Tom Davis are co-sponsors? What about it?
  19. #79  
    Originally Posted By: bclinger at Today 08:25 PM

    To state the evilness of a right wing court is to also acknowledge the evilness of a left wing court. I do not advocate the death of a child for research, those on the left do and I consider that to be evil.


    Wow. You are really out there man. Those unborn souls are very lucky to have you in their camp.

    I have no idea to what you are referring. You can't possibly be implying that all or even a majority of liberals are evil supporters of baby killing research. I've read that quote several times and still think it is entirely trippy.
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  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Originally Posted By: bclinger at Today 08:25 PM

    To state the evilness of a right wing court is to also acknowledge the evilness of a left wing court. I do not advocate the death of a child for research, those on the left do and I consider that to be evil.


    Wow. You are really out there man. Those unborn souls are very lucky to have you in their camp.

    I have no idea to what you are referring. You can't possibly be implying that all or even a majority of liberals are evil supporters of baby killing research. I've read that quote several times and still think it is entirely trippy.
    I think he's referring to embryonic stem cell research. Since Christians believe that life begins at conception, an embryo is considered a baby.

    As far as the partial-birth abortion dialogue goes, I'm in the camp against abortion unless it is absolutely necessary to save the life of the mother (if that is what the mother wants). A baby/pregnancy is a choice that has been made. Sometimes people say it was an accident, but I have never seen two people accidentally get naked and have intercourse. It is a choice. Choices have consequences. Every choice has a consequence, and we only get stronger as people by going through those consequences. Christina's story is one of a mothers passion for her children. She did not give up on her child, even though she had been down a horrible road before. There are fewer and fewer women like her in the world. Most abortions performed are not out of necessity, but out of convenience. I find that horrible to think about. Thank goodness your parents didn't think you were an inconvenience.

    Our society is one of convenience and entitlement.
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