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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23 View Post
    it's a horrible and barbaric procedure...glad it's gone.
    How many women's lives have you been involved in where it was necessary to suffer through the procedure and recovery with them?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    How about a baby with hydrocephalus?



    (I chose a simple illustration just to educate, not shock)

    This baby is alive, but non viable, and at late term the head is too big to deliver cervically. Basically this law condemns this women to having a Cesarean section, vs a safer procedure with less trauma to her womb and later fertility.

    Surur
    Excellent post. I see nobody has a response to it that makes any sense either. Instead let's just keep blathering about the emotional aspects of partial birth....yes, we get it....I get it....it's horrible and under normal circumstances should not be an option.

    But the law is wrong in situations like sursur has posted above and numerous others - yet here we have a congress (when it was still run by the GOP) and a conservative supreme court (carefully put in place by the christian right) playing both doctor and god and making a women's and her doctor's decision for her whether she should live or die and/or risk losing her fertility or not.

    As barbaric as late term abortions are under normal circumstances (e.g. the women is healthy and there are no risk to her nor the baby) then this law is equally BARBARIC and uncivilized to those clinically at risk.

    This is where the christian right is so hypocritical it is beyond belief to me.
  3. #43  
    I'm not going to argue with you guys about this stuff...your men. I know you each have your own very specific opinions on this, and every other controversial subject you choose to post and debate over. In fact, your answers are all predictable, because anyone who's read through the Off Topic section of the forum on regular basis knows who's on what side.

    That being said, I don't see any posts from women or mothers in this, so I thought I'd add the view of someone who is both.

    I lost two little girls in the third trimester of pregnancy, two separate times. I spent months, in and out of the hospital trying to do whatever it took to save them and at times, feeling like I couldn't do it anymore. In the end, the efforts failed and I had to deliver each of them just like my other children, knowing they wouldn't survive the night. One labor was two hours, the other five. My daughter Kiley lived one hour, my daughter Kinsey lived three.

    When I found out I was pregnant again, we took every precaution possible to avoid what I had already went through, but it all started all over again. I didn't think I could do it a third time, not physically or emotionally. I was back in the hospital, countless times on horrible drugs and physically I had nothing left. I felt like I would rather die than go through it again. But, I couldn't give up. The bond you develop when that child is inside you is unbreakable. This pregnancy ended up being much worse than the first two. Meanwhile, my doctors were now concerned with my physical safety and my emotional sanity. This was going to be my fifth delivery and third early-term. They brought in counselors to discuss my options...but in my mind, there were none. The doctors knew it was inevitable that she would arrive early and we started the preparation. I was given steroids to speed up her development and drugs to hold her in as long as possible, because at that point each and every day counts. She was born 8 weeks early and released from NICU after only 6 days. She's my miracle...

    The point of my telling you my experience is this...NONE of you can make a decision based on science, politics or emotion because it's what you believe or feel. I'm not saying if it's your wife/sister/daughter, that you don't feel for her...but you don't have any idea what a woman's breaking point is. I would not let my babies go, that doesn't mean a part of me didn't want to. I'm human, I felt the pain, the sickness, the exhaustion and I wanted to make it stop. My heart wouldn't let me...but, that's me. Not all women can make the same decisions I did and that is completely within their right.

    If a woman's life is in danger (and yes bclinger, it is possible to endanger a woman's life by carrying out a pregnancy to term in some circumstances) who is suppose to decide whether that woman lives or dies? Her husband? Her doctors? Politicians??? I can honestly say, most of the women I know would choose her unborn baby's life over her own. But, I know their husbands would not. I don't know a husband out there that would choose the life of a child they've never met over the life of the partner they've touched, held and loved for years.

    As far as the children that are diagnosed with birth defects, what kind of life will these children live when they're born? bclinger, you keep mentioning adoption. There are millions of beautiful, healthy children available throughtout the world that are not being adopted. Who is going to adopt a child with severe birth defects, knowing they will probably die? Have you guys ever stopped to consider the agony the mother knows she will go through watching her child suffer on a daily basis?

    I'm sorry, I know this post is long. But, you guys were pissin' me off...
  4. backbeat's Avatar
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    #44  
    ^ Extremely well said and I'm thankful an informed woman finally spoke up.
  5. #45  
    F***in Palm!! WM Rules
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    If a woman's life is in danger (and yes bclinger, it is possible to endanger a woman's life by carrying out a pregnancy to term in some circumstances) who is suppose to decide whether that woman lives or dies? Her husband? Her doctors? Politicians???
    What a great post - thank you for your perspective.

    It is sad that the media has let the right-wing shape this issue so that people think it is predominantly a procedure used by hippies or lets be frank....godless liberals who want to use the procedure as though its just another form of contraception....you know, like rubbers.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    ^ Tell that to the widowers who lose their wives under this dark-ages ruling.

    The law provides an exception to save a woman’s life!!! (not that you even read the law in the first place)
  8. #48  
    Christinac130,

    Thank you for sharing your painful story. The strength you showed during each of your birthing experiences is amazing. As a man I cannot comprehend what it would be like physically or emotionally to handle child birth of any type (healthy or otherwise).

    I was so fortunate that both my children were delivered into this world without any medical complications. It is heart wrenching to imagine what it would be like having to make a life or death decision during what should be the most joyous time in ones life. The only thing that could be more horrifying would be to have your decision forced by the cabal of backwards men in Washington.

    Your perspective was very much needed in this thread.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  9. #49  
    Christina, thank you for your touching story. I hope the best for your 3rd child, and I'm sure she's the most spoiled child in the world

    Surur
  10. backbeat's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23 View Post
    The law provides an exception to save a woman’s life!!! (not that you even read the law in the first place)
    Re-read the whole 3 pages of this thread to gain a more accurate perspective. This has been covered. Judicial review is required before any intervention to save the woman's life, therefore subject to acquiring a judge and court time while the woman suffers and, plausibly, dies. There is no exception for the woman's health, 2 very distinct matters of great importance.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    That being said, I don't see any posts from women or mothers in this, so I thought I'd add the view of someone who is both.
    Dear Christina, thank you for sharing this. You are a remarkable woman and I admire your strength and the power of your love for your children.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  12. backbeat's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    I can honestly say, most of the women I know would choose her unborn baby's life over her own. But, I know their husbands would not. I don't know a husband out there that would choose the life of a child they've never met over the life of the partner they've touched, held and loved for years.
    From a man's perspective, I have to strongly agree with this, in particular. As gut-wrenching and painful as it is, you're quite correct that no man will allow anyone else to determine if his wife lives or dies, but her, her physicians and family (if necessary) charged with the responsibility. I would personally push the system until it broke to save my wife's life, if her life was able to be saved, regardless of unskilled, non-liable, bureaucratic wanna-be gods.
  13. #53  
    Thank you all for your kind words. I just wanted to provide a perspective that I thought was sadly missing throughout this thread. My daughter is five now and beginning kindergarten in the fall. She is not showing any ill effects from her premature birth and is, in fact, considered "advanced" for her age. I have to thank my Autistic son for that, he loves to read to her and spends every second she'll allow teaching her more than she'll ever need to know about dinosaurs and nature.

    I actually had one more daughter after Kaylen. Remarkably, my pregnancy with her had very few complications. I consider it my "reward" for not giving up when I truly believed I had nothing left to give. She was born seven weeks pre-mature, but with our prior knowledge we took the correct precautions and she is turning three in June.

    I just hope you all will stop and take a moment to consider the woman before passing judgment on her decisions. We're human, just like you and we have our limits...

    When all is said and done, this is why I did what I did...
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  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    I would personally push the system until it broke to save my wife's life, if her life was able to be saved, regardless of unskilled, non-liable, bureaucratic wanna-be gods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    ...When all is said and done, this is why I did what I did...
    In our culture, the debate of principles, practices and procedures, can leave the impression that parties are so far apart. But, in real life, i find that we are much closer than we think.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In our culture, the debate of principles, practices and procedures, can leave the impression that parties are so far apart. But, in real life, i find that we are much closer than we think.
    What an appropriate post .

    You always have the right way to hit it home
    Last edited by sxtg; 04/19/2007 at 11:31 AM.
  16. backbeat's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In our culture, the debate of principles, practices and procedures, can leave the impression that parties are so far apart. But, in real life, i find that we are much closer than we think.
    As soon as 503C money is legally deemed to be an abomination of our political system, you just may be proven correct. Not until, however. I suspect this nation, as a whole, is much more Purple than Red or Blue.

    This new Rightist Supreme Court has already passed the rightwing litmus test. Now, they will deem that a $ equals free speech.
  17. #57  
    Seems your post was lost on some
  18. backbeat's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post
    Seems your post was lost on some
    This was unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    In our culture, the debate of principles, practices and procedures, can leave the impression that parties are so far apart. But, in real life, i find that we are much closer than we think.
    His post regarded political parties. As long as money separates them, well ... Anyone with an atom of grey-matter and logic can figure out the rest, rationally.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    This was unnecessary.



    His post regarded political parties. As long as money separates them, well ... Anyone with an atom of grey-matter and logic can figure out the rest, rationally.
    Sigh..... NO His post regarded the motivation or at least both sides argument as being LIFE and more specifically in this case- the life of a child.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    When all is said and done, this is why I did what I did...
    Congratulations. Your children are lovely.

    Surur
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