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  1. #41  
  2. backbeat's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Still no link?
    Without a link, the models you've seen don't exist?

    Whose intelligence do you think you're foolin'?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    ^ His source was provided, related to when he asked/what he was asking for, at the top of this page..
    So van Heerden told you this personally?
    For someone who seems to be so intimately involved, you're missing quite a few basics from your neighboring LSU. Aren't they sharing with you?
    Apparently not the good info that you're getting.
    As further perspective, I'm surprised you esteem Dr. van Heerden's opinion in any regard since he holds no civil engineering credentials, which lessens the weight of his opinion on levee design vs his opinion on NO's levee foundations, given his expertise in geology .
    Where did I say I held his opinion on levee design in esteem? I only said that he was quite influential in getting the information about the levee design flaws out.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    This was so well documented after katrina it us common knowledge. It would have been very difficult to avoid learning this fact.
    Amazing. I've worked directly in parish government in dealing with emergency preparedness and planning. I've been a partner in a business whose purpose was hurricane preparedness consulting for parish governments. I've worked for a rural telco with disaster planning recovery as one of my primary responsibilities. Even ignoring that, I've lived in the area for my entire life, and been through more hurricanes than I can count. And yet, apparently they're keeping information from us.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I think we need to rename this thread.....I didn't realize Katrina had such a huge impact on terrorist Internet use.
    It's the opposite. We all know that the Yakuza used Russian technology to create Katrina. They were just acting on behalf of al-Qaeda to cover their internet use.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Amazing. I've worked directly in parish government in dealing with emergency preparedness and planning. I've been a partner in a business whose purpose was hurricane preparedness consulting for parish governments. I've worked for a rural telco with disaster planning recovery as one of my primary responsibilities. Even ignoring that, I've lived in the area for my entire life, and been through more hurricanes than I can count. And yet, apparently they're keeping information from us.
    Well allow me to help you with that:

    The Man Who Knew.
  7. backbeat's Avatar
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    #47  
    "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."
    President Bush, ABC's "Good Morning America" Thursday September 1, 2005


    Oh, really?



    http://www.nd.edu/%7Eadcirc/pam.htm

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...ricane-pam.htm
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Well allow me to help you with that:

    The Man Who Knew.
    Ahh...at least an honest debate. Now, please elaborate on how this proves that breaches of the levee in places like the 17th street Canal were expected. The most van Heerden claimed (after the fact) is that he was concerned. Also please elaborate on how the scenario of Hurricane Pam applies to Katrina which did not have the same track, did not have the same strength, nor cause flooding in the same manner. Also please elaborate where van Heerden said he knew the levees would be breached in the conditions encountered under Katrina. Again, as I said in my original statement, we knew that given the right circumstances, there would be extensive flooding. Katrina was not what was forecast in those models ...not even close. The levees that failed did not even see Category 3 conditions. A 120mph storm travelling on Betsy's path? Nope. Katrina wasn't nearly that bad.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."
    President Bush, ABC's "Good Morning America" Thursday September 1, 2005


    Oh, really?



    http://www.nd.edu/%7Eadcirc/pam.htm

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...ricane-pam.htm
    E for effort, finally. Now, all you have to do is understand how different the hypothetical scenario of Pam was from the reality of Katrina.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #50  
    ^ Denial is not a position. You offer simplistic potshots at those with the advanced credentials, including van Heerden, instead.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    ^ Denial is not a position.
    My position should have been quite clear. That you're still dancing around it is telling.
    You offer simplistic potshots at those with the advanced credentials, including van Heerden, instead.
    I've offered no potshots at van Heerden. I'm sure that he can grasp the relatively simple concepts I've mentioned. I've even refrained from potshots at you to this point despite the fact that you apparently can't even grasp the contextual difference between Bush stating that no one expected levee breaches from a storm with the specifics of Katrina and someone stating that no one ever expected a levee to be breached under any circumstances. If even Bush can understand that, I'm still flummoxed as to why people such as yourself can't.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    ^ All Show/ No Go.
    And you don't even have the show apparently. Talk about really
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    ...and someone stating that no one ever expected a levee to be breached under any circumstances.
    Who made this statement (or even the suggestion) and when?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Who made this statement (or even the suggestion) and when?
    You make that exact implication when you try to compare Bush's statement within the context of Katrina with models like the ones from the Pam exercise. Let's review...I stated:
    Nothing that happened during Katrina was unexpected or hadn't been predicted. That it happened from systemic levee failures after the storm was the only unexpected twist.
    The implication here is that the circumstances of Katrina did not in fact meet the models where such destruction was expected. The circumstances of Katrina should not have led to what actually happened. Bush's statement which you then brought up was technically correct in context. Nothing more. Nothing less. If you truly wanted a farcical statement to get wound up about, Chertoff's is much more apropos.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. backbeat's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    You make that exact implication when you try to compare Bush's statement within the context of Katrina with models like the ones from the Pam exercise.
    An errant assumption on your part. Bush, however, did not qualify his statement as you're suggesting he did. His statement was a blanket exercise in CYA.

    The implication here is that the circumstances of Katrina did not in fact meet the models where such destruction was expected. The circumstances of Katrina should not have led to what actually happened.
    ... Speaking of blanket CYA ... More plausible denial without specificity?
  16. #56  
    No qualificatIon or explanation is required, you simply need to understand the definition of the terms. Then you can figure it out for yourself.
  17. backbeat's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    No qualificatIon or explanation is required, you simply need to understand the definition of the terms. Then you can figure it out for yourself.
    As according to Merriam-Webster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    breach = break is even the dictionary definition. Overtop is not equal to break.
    Whata sad joke.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    An errant assumption on your part.
    No error and no assumption. The context of his statement was the reality of Katrina.
    Bush, however, did not qualify his statement as you're suggesting he did.
    Why would he have to? He was talking about something specific.
    His statement was a blanket exercise in CYA.
    Quite probably. Doesn't make it inaccurate, though. If you want to criticize the federal response to Katrina, go ahead. There's plenty to criticize on the local, state and federal levels, but if the worst indictment you can point out is that one statement, you need to Google a bit more.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Whata sad joke.
    That you can't read a dictionary?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #60  
    Seriously. Why waste your time? The kool-aid is strong in this one.

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