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  1.    #1  
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_5963922.htm

    With promising results coming out of adult stem cell research like this, there maybe no reason to debate embryonic stem cell research in the future.

    Aaron
  2. #2  
    There has never been anything good out of embryonic stem cell research. Notice the word "could" is almost always used. Incidentally, billionaire George should put his money there if he thinks embryonic stem cell research is so important. Surely it is more important that his political agenda.

    Ben
  3. #3  
    Ben,

    I am quite certain there have been naysayers, such a you, throughout history attempting to discredit scientific and medical advances. Keep that head burried in the sand and be sure not to thank Bush when the successes of stem cell research cures a terminal disease or disorder afflicting you or one of your loved ones.

    You are still a trip.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  4. #4  
    And I have done the research - nothing substantial has come from it - please point to ONE that has been successful. Just one.

    Why point to the Federal government? What is wrong with private research? Why does the Federal government need to be involved in everything? Why not ask George Soros to spend some of his money to benefit research?

    You are the trip. Nothing is being done to prevent the research.

    Ben
  5. #5  
    Ben,

    You missed my point and appear to be "researching" in the wrong medical journals. Best of luck in the dark ages.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  6. #6  
    Embryonic stem cell research is a tricky 'sell'...balancing advances in medicine and the 'sanctity ' of life. Im all for research but its perfectly within the governments wishes to determine which items it wishes to fund.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Ben,

    You missed my point and appear to be "researching" in the wrong medical journals. Best of luck in the dark ages.
    Which journals do you recommend?
  8. backbeat's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho View Post
    Embryonic stem cell research is a tricky 'sell'...balancing advances in medicine and the 'sanctity ' of life. Im all for research but its perfectly within the governments wishes to determine which items it wishes to fund.
    There is no such thing as the sanctity of cells within ethical terms. This is a black-and-white false argument and nothing tricky about it. Cells are not life. A cell is a cell, whether empty or whole.
  9. #9  
    It totally depends on what one considers life and when life begins. I for one do not sanction embryonic stem cell research. Ben
  10. #10  
    The whole selling point on this is basically "IF" and "WHEN" - the instability of embryonic stem cell is also a factor. Rapid growth, unstable...it just is not there. There is much more promise with adult stem cells than embryonic.

    More than anything else, embryonic stem cell research is an emotional issue.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Ben,

    You missed my point and appear to be "researching" in the wrong medical journals. Best of luck in the dark ages.
  11.    #11  
    People who want MY tax dollars to go to funding embryonic stem cell research are usually the same people who have a huge problem with THEIR tax dollars going to a faith based organization.

    Point: no one should have to have money come out of their check to pay for something they feel is morally wrong (even thoough it happens all the time

    Aaron
  12. backbeat's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    And I have done the research - nothing substantial has come from it - please point to ONE that has been successful. Just one.
    One what?

    What peer-reviewed papers are you referring to? Having 'done the research', what papers have you published?

    Why point to the Federal government? What is wrong with private research? Why does the Federal government need to be involved in everything?
    You clearly are not aware of how (significant) research grants are obtained because you are paying for them currently. You and your world are also better off for it. Otherwise, shareholders' interest would be the primary fuel for research which inherently compromises result integrity.

    Why not ask George Soros to spend some of his money to benefit research?
    Everyone has to choose which research battles to wage. World-wide AIDS/HIV, Tuberculosis, and health programs for the world's poor are his. How self-serving of him!
  13. #13  
    My area of expertise is entomology, (what is yours) and I have not published any papers concerning stem cell research. I have though done a lot of reading on the topic. It is an emotional issue with little to back it up in real world. The possibilities are exciting, but we are not there with it. There is a lot more promise from adult stem cells. I am aware that I and all legal people in this country are paying research grants and whether you are aware of it, research grants to determine if a fish can live in water in a dark cave does nothing for most of us.

    I find it amazing that no one has any interest in proposing that George Sorus use his money for research.

    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    One what

    What peer-reviewed papers are you referring to? Having 'done the research', what papers have you published?



    You clearly are not aware of how (significant) research grants are obtained because you are paying for them currently. You and your world are also better off for it. Otherwise, shareholders' interest would be the primary fuel for research which inherently compromises result integrity.



    Everyone has to choose which research battles to wage. World-wide AIDS/HIV, Tuberculosis, and health programs for the world's poor are his. How self-serving of him!
  14. #14  
    Taking his money for research - legalizing marijuana? there are a few other things and he is not up there in giving money. He would do better putting his money in research instead of saying the government must do it.

    His politics are just too far to the left for me.

    Ben
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    My area of expertise is entomology, (what is yours)
    Orthopedic surgical instrument design and manufacturing.

    and I have not published any papers concerning stem cell research. I have though done a lot of reading on the topic.
    Did you also stay in a Holiday Inn Express?

    It is an emotional issue
    Nothing to be emotional about.

    I am aware that I and all legal people in this country...
    Building a fence around Hawaii to keep the Mexicans out?

    ...are paying research grants and whether you are aware of it, research grants to determine if a fish can live in water in a dark cave does nothing for most of us.
    Nothing like the NIH to provide research grants in the multi-millions to research cancer, heart disease, childhood obesity, diabetes, etc. Talk apples-to-apples and we can get somewhere.
  16. #16  
    Orthopedic surgical instrument design and manufacturing - does that make you more qualified? Not really. No more qualified than I am; however, my background does cover a number of areas that yours does not. No, never stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn. Have you? and if it were not an emotional issue then why or why do people like Ron Howard and Reagan stand up and say what they did? Why or why, so yes, it is an emotional issue and will stay that way because - to ignore that shows your willingness to continue to be closed about this issue.

    We have no need for a fence, the ocean does that. I suggest you look at a fence if it concerns you.

    The topics you mention are valid topics that have always shown hope in research - but the hope in research for these have never hung themselves totally on the back of unborn children (emotional statement).

    Now, hang the nasty comments - you really are showing yourself there.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Orthopedic surgical instrument design and manufacturing.



    Did you also stay in a Holiday Inn Express?



    Nothing to be emotional about.



    Building a fence around Hawaii to keep the Mexicans out?



    Nothing like the NIH to provide research grants in the multi-millions to research cancer, heart disease, childhood obesity, diabetes, etc. Talk apples-to-apples and we can get somewhere.
  17. #17  
    I like Holiday Inn Express - guess that makes me less qualified than either of you - which frankly, neither of you are. They always have free high-speed internet access, breakfast in the morning, and working A/C and/or heat. Or maybe that just makes me a spend thrift...dunno.

    But since this thread is titled "adult stem cell" I'd like to simply ask for someone to explain to me the difference between adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research? Seriously....lets get this back on topic if we can as it merits discussion if it can be done without fighting.
  18. backbeat's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Orthopedic surgical instrument design and manufacturing - does that make you more qualified? Not really. No more qualified than I am; however, my background does cover a number of areas that yours does not.
    Suggestion: Don't make assumptions you cannot validate about my background and I'll do the same. Am I going to post my CV here? No. Neither are you.

    We have no need for a fence, the ocean does that.
    Having lived in Kaneohe many years ago, I'm quite familiar with the environment. Thanks anyway.

    The topics you mention are valid topics that have always shown hope in research - but the hope in research for these have never hung themselves totally on the back of unborn children (emotional statement).
    There is no such thing as an unborn child, as a fetus becomes a child at birth. May be difficult to remain pragmatic about this to some, but necessary to remain objective.

    Now, hang the nasty comments - you really are showing yourself there.
    No nastiness, just hoping against hope for some unemotional, wise, and both clinically and legally sound judgments, regardless of hotel choices.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat
    There is no such thing as an unborn child, as a fetus becomes a child at birth.
    At what point in the process does this magical transformation happen? Contact with air? Not until the umbilical is cut?
    May be difficult to remain pragmatic about this to some, but necessary to remain objective.
    Drawing that line at such a point makes little sense. At least the 'viability' argument is a bit more logical, although I think that limitations of our technology should hardly be blamed on the ability of the 'fetus' to survive 'on its own'. Objectively, the 'fetus' can easily be considered a human life from the moment of conception. The point of its development cycle makes little difference objectively. It has a separate DNA signature from its host. Subjectively, we may find less ethical issues since it doesn't look quite as human, or may not be able to survive outside its host environment, but the semantic 'fetus' vs. 'child' stuff rings a bit hollow, IMO.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. backbeat's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    At what point in the process does this magical transformation happen? Contact with air? Not until the umbilical is cut?

    Drawing that line at such a point makes little sense. At least the 'viability' argument is a bit more logical, although I think that limitations of our technology should hardly be blamed on the ability of the 'fetus' to survive 'on its own'.
    "As you know, you give birth with the technology you have. They're not the technology you might want or wish to have at a later time."

    You also may want to look into the clinical definition of birth to clear up the above referenced confusion.

    Objectively, the 'fetus' can easily be considered a human life from the moment of conception. The point of its development cycle makes little difference objectively. It has a separate DNA signature from its host. Subjectively, we may find less ethical issues since it doesn't look quite as human, or may not be able to survive outside its host environment, but the semantic 'fetus' vs. 'child' stuff rings a bit hollow, IMO.
    By pragmatic reasoning, and by ethic, one must recognize that the fetus' 'host' is a legally defined person. It may not be the easy or sentimental way, but we're a nation of laws where decisions must be made outside of emotion. Within that framework, the clinical determination is between physician and 'host'.
    Last edited by backbeat; 04/14/2007 at 06:47 PM.
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