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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    No such thing as an unborn child?
    Only an emotional person, whether clinician or not, would casually characterize as you have.

    I am objective - life begins at conception.
    Define life. BONUS HINT: It must meet both clinical and legal standards.

    Our society considers a fetus to be an unborn child, hence the laws in place to punish people who assault/kill/whatever the mother of an unborn child or the child itself.
    Your right wing, only in recent years, has been successful in this legislative anti-Roe domino-effect. It still holds no clinical value.
    Last edited by backbeat; 04/15/2007 at 11:01 AM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Roe v Wade is an issue of the state level, not the federal level. No where does it state in the Constitution that abortion is a "right." No where in the Constitution does it state that I should pay to have someones pregnancy terminated. As for being influenced by religious beliefs and localized societal norms, gosh, the left forgets this is a predominately Christian nation with a secular government. Also, I do not remember noting any religion sanctioning abortion, so it is just not a Christian-Judea concept.

    I do not favor abortions; however, the act is a state issue, not a federal. It is not in any remote manner addressed by the Federal Constitution.

    As for stem cell research, embryonic stem cells come from an unborn child killed in order to collect the stem cells. Note, the unborn child is not conceived in the womb, it is conceived in vitro. The cells are grown in a laboratory. An adult stem cell comes from an adult, not an unborn child. Adult stem cells are more stable Embryonic stem cells grow rapidly and erratically, could cause transplant rejection and are not considered practical at this point. Adult stem cells can come from the patient's own cells and therefore would not be rejected by the immune system.

    Going further, from http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/faqs.asp, the following quote:

    "Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater developmental potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells may be pluripotentóthat is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely multipotentórestricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought to be."

    Thought not fact.

    Ben
    I'm not even sure where to start with this....and I know I shouldn't...but

    1. You know full well that the Supreme Court has overturned attempts by some states to restrict abortions so don't tell me its a state issue when you know better.

    2. This country may well be populated largely by Christians but I beg to differ that that makes us a Christian nation. And even within the Christian community there are wide degrees of separation of their beliefs beyond the core underlying principal that Christ was the Son of Man and died on a cross, etc.

    3. The last time I checked it was Christian fundametalist blowing up clinics, shooting doctors, and violently protesting clinics. I've not seen many Muslims, Jews, Hindus, doing any of that. But that is besides the point - whatever religions want to be pro-life or pro-abortion are fine by me - just so long as our government doesn't side with one religion over another in making laws that are clear attempts to legislate morality.

    4. Columbus "thought" the world was round...and was ridiculed for thinking so by guys like you. If adult stem cell research shows promise I fail to see why you would object to curbing further research in making such "thoughts" into real treatments and/or cures?

    5. And last but not least....can you read? This thread is titled "YAY....FOR ADULT STEM CELL RESEARCH" and yet you were the first to post something that immediately led the discussion into one of embryonic stem cell research.

    Back on topic.

    Toby, what issue would the Bush administration have with adult stem cell research? Or don't they?
  3. #43  
    How about adult burrito stem research? When is a burrito considered a burrito? Is it considered a burrito before you put the beans in it? Don't even get me started on the ethics of cloning a burrito.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
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  4. #44  
    It has become a federal concern because of the extreme willingness of the activists on the court reading in to the Constitution more than what is really there. The common belief it is a living document just gives rise to so many possibilities.

    Do you celebrate Christmas? Do you give presents at Christmas time? Do you take a day off for Christmas? What are your values based on? We are a Christan nation whether you agree or not.

    We also have radicals on the left out of control. Not all people on the right support blowing up abortion clinics, killing doctors, et cetera. You are again grouping incorrectly and emotionally.

    I do not believe in curbing research - but why oh why not have the private sector support it? Again - George S. should spend his money constructively. Have you contributed to it? I have not, though I do contribute to two charities.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I'm not even sure where to start with this....and I know I shouldn't...but

    1. You know full well that the Supreme Court has overturned attempts by some states to restrict abortions so don't tell me its a state issue when you know better.

    2. This country may well be populated largely by Christians but I beg to differ that that makes us a Christian nation. And even within the Christian community there are wide degrees of separation of their beliefs beyond the core underlying principal that Christ was the Son of Man and died on a cross, etc.

    3. The last time I checked it was Christian fundametalist blowing up clinics, shooting doctors, and violently protesting clinics. I've not seen many Muslims, Jews, Hindus, doing any of that. But that is besides the point - whatever religions want to be pro-life or pro-abortion are fine by me - just so long as our government doesn't side with one religion over another in making laws that are clear attempts to legislate morality.

    4. Columbus "thought" the world was round...and was ridiculed for thinking so by guys like you. If adult stem cell research shows promise I fail to see why you would object to curbing further research in making such "thoughts" into real treatments and/or cures?

    5. And last but not least....can you read? This thread is titled "YAY....FOR ADULT STEM CELL RESEARCH" and yet you were the first to post something that immediately led the discussion into one of embryonic stem cell research.

    Back on topic.

    Toby, what issue would the Bush administration have with adult stem cell research? Or don't they?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by stroths View Post
    How about adult burrito stem research? When is a burrito considered a burrito? Is it considered a burrito before you put the beans in it? Don't even get me started on the ethics of cloning a burrito.
    But I think the bigger issue is the long standing policy of Taco Bell accepting cash only that is now thrown to the side as they now accept debit cards. Even though this may appear to be more convenient for the customer at a casual glance, I still strongly believe that they have abandoned their traditional monetary collection culture to the point that I am willing to boycott all Taco Bells (except when I really want an Empanada on the go).
  6. #46  
    Personally I think Taco Bell's food is barely worth that of monopoly money....but I agree the Empanada's on the go can't be beat.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny
    This thread is titled "YAY....FOR ADULT STEM CELL RESEARCH" and yet you were the first to post something that immediately led the discussion into one of embryonic stem cell research.
    Actually, one can safely assume that the joy at adult stem cell research successes 'stems' (heh) from the fact that it reinforces that embryonic stem cell research might not be necessary.
    Toby, what issue would the Bush administration have with adult stem cell research? Or don't they?
    No clue. I can't imagine they'd have a problem with it, but I guess it would depend on what Karl Rove thought it would do to their political position.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Do you celebrate Christmas?
    Define 'celebrate Christmas'.
    Do you give presents at Christmas time?
    How does this make one Christian?
    Do you take a day off for Christmas?
    I take two. How does this make me a Christian?
    What are your values based on?
    Enlightened self-interest.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    But since this thread is titled "adult stem cell" I'd like to simply ask for someone to explain to me the difference between adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research? Seriously....lets get this back on topic if we can as it merits discussion if it can be done without fighting.
    28 posts on an Adult Stem Cell Research thread and this basic question is still not addressed as the thread can't seem to get past party line politics.
    Post #49 and still no one addressing this question.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Post #49 and still no one addressing this question.
    Is it really fair to count the first 16 posts since this wasn't brought up until then? The answer should be self-evident, though. The source of the stem cells. One comes from embryos created in vitro, and the other comes from a more willing participant. OTOH, one could ask NIH.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #51  
    Uhm....Okay....that much I thought was self evident. Let me be a little more specific:

    1) What are the challenges faced with adult stem cells vs the challenges with embryonic stem cells?

    2) What is the realistic medical outlook of pratical uses for each?

    3) Minus the obvious moral question of embryonic usage, what are the pros and cons of each side by side?

    The reason I ask, is that I can find wide ranging answers leaning to nearly any conclusion as answers to each of these questions.
  12. #52  
    #34. Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Post #49 and still no one addressing this question.
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