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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Please elaborate.
    If we believe we are not in a privileged position, and that the principles of science is universal, the processes that created (intelligent) life here would create intelligent life on many other planets all over the universe. You would have to believe we are extremely special to be the only intelligent life in the universe. God is a different story.

    Surur
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Let's appreciate that if there is a God, at least in the Judeo sense, that God is a creator.
    I don't need to equivocate. I know my mother and father created me.
    A creator's authority is inherent, in that people exists at the discretion of the creator. Whereas societies exist at the discretion of the people.
    Again, societies 'evolved' from extended family structures. We all exist at the discretion of our social structure. Doesn't it take a village to raise a child?
    Our social structures have ability to levy consequences. But the authority to do so is granted by the governed, and is only as valid as the continual consent of the same.
    Is a representative republic the only social structure out there?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    If we believe we are not in a privileged position, and that the principles of science is universal, the processes that created (intelligent) life here would create intelligent life on many other planets all over the universe. You would have to believe we are extremely special to be the only intelligent life in the universe. God is a different story.

    Surur

    I would say "potentially create intelligent life on many other planets".

    From a purely scientific point of view, yes, the probability that there is intelligent alien life supercedes the probability that there is a divine being(s).

    However, there is a difference between the idea of intelligent life on another planet, and the possibility that some powerful aliens have controlled/guided/manipulated our evolution. (Not sure if you were going there with that or not). One is much more likely than the other.

    Chris
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    I would say "potentially create intelligent life on many other planets".

    From a purely scientific point of view, yes, the probability that there is intelligent alien life supercedes the probability that there is a divine being(s).

    However, there is a difference between the idea of intelligent life on another planet, and the possibility that some powerful aliens have controlled/guided/manipulated our evolution. (Not sure if you were going there with that or not). One is much more likely than the other.

    Chris
    Just to be clear, I do not think aliens directed our evolution, but at least its scientifically conceivable. Just because intelligent alien life is statistically likely, its a more likely agent than incorporeal spirits. Say the probability of alien interference is 0.00000001, and of Gods as conceived by Christians for example, 0.000000000000000000000000000001.

    Surur
  5. #125  
    As another analogy, if you find a guy dead in the street with a head wound, its conceivable he was hit on the head by a piece of ice falling of an airplane wing, which subsequently melted, but much more likely that he was mugged. You would probably not even consider ghost attack.

    Surur
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Just to be clear, I do not think aliens directed our evolution, but at least its scientifically conceivable. Just because intelligent alien life is statistically likely, its a more likely agent than incorporeal spirits. Say the probability of alien interference is 0.00000001, and of Gods as conceived by Christians for example, 0.000000000000000000000000000001.

    Surur
    So what you are really saying is that there is a possibility there is a God .....it's a small one, but it is a start!
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    So what you are really saying is that there is a possibility there is a God .....it's a small one, but it is a start!
    Almost nothing is impossible, with a probability of 0. This is probably best explain in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, regarding the Infinite Improbability Drive.

    Surur
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    So what you are really saying is that there is a possibility there is a God
    Less likely than a rich man going to heaven.
  9. backbeat's Avatar
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    What am I missing?
    You're missing the reality of what it means/meant to be a Deist in the Colonies.
  10. #130  
    Your mom is a Deist.....BURN!
    Last edited by aairman23; 04/11/2007 at 08:13 AM. Reason: spelling/sentance structure/fact correction
  11. backbeat's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23 View Post
    Your mom is a Deist.....BURN!
    Actually, no. But your primary Forefathers were.
  12. #132  
    Last edited by aairman23 : Today at 02:13 PM. Reason: spelling/sentance structure/fact correction
    How did you manage to get all that wrong in a 6 word sentence?

    Surur
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    I completely agree with your statement that people should be free to believe in what they want to believe in.

    I believe I should be a good person. Not because I hope to go to Heaven or hope to come back as a butterfly or to avoid going to Hell, but because I believe it is the right thing to do. My parents are devout Catholics, but they taught me to be kind, considerate, honest, loyal...a good person, because that's the way people should be, not because I was Catholic.
    The idea that you should / can or be able to believe in whatever you believe in is purely bogus. Sucide bombers are an example. Hitler is another example, not only did he have the courage of his convictions but the will to act on them. He called on Providence many times while wailing on Catholicism. Muslims are killing each other in Iraq. This is not sectarian violence. It is religious violence.
    Religion gets a free bye in our society. It could be absurd, dangerous and full of bogotry. You can challenge somebody politics, his science, his work ethic, his biological heritage but heaven forbid his belief system. Some belief systems are down right dangerous and do not support human values for all. Thou shalt not kill was originally meant that shall not kill Jews as Moses fought his way to the promise land.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    So what you are really saying is that there is a possibility there is a God .....it's a small one, but it is a start!
    There absolutely IS a possiblity of a God existing.

    I don't discount that. I just don't believe it.

    Chris
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stack View Post
    The idea that you should / can or be able to believe in whatever you believe in is purely bogus. Sucide bombers are an example. Hitler is another example, not only did he have the courage of his convictions but the will to act on them. He called on Providence many times while wailing on Catholicism. Muslims are killing each other in Iraq. This is not sectarian violence. It is religious violence.
    Religion gets a free bye in our society. It could be absurd, dangerous and full of bogotry. You can challenge somebody politics, his science, his work ethic, his biological heritage but heaven forbid his belief system. Some belief systems are down right dangerous and do not support human values for all. Thou shalt not kill was originally meant that shall not kill Jews as Moses fought his way to the promise land.
    Religion is the most divisive human invention of all mankind.
  16. #136  
    So is money, politics, weapons of war, dictatorships, etc....

    Anything good can be turned to be used for any alternative motivation thinkable. Often times, when many of these unspeakable acts are done in the name of Religion, it is the excuse...the selling point...the facade to hide behind...an unrelated justification for a cause that the said religion did not teach by methods it does not support...so that when it comes down to it the unswerving desire to honor their claimed religion was not the true underlaying motivation for committing these acts but rather we find it usually is the desire for money, power, sex, revenge, political gains, land, etc...
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/11/2007 at 01:51 PM.
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    the desire for money, power, sex, revenge, political gains, land, etc...
    Aahh yes ... The very fabric of every man-made religion. On every level, religion is about separating one's self from others, both on a personal basis as well as nationalist.
  18. #138  
    The point is just because the name of religion has been used and abused in the past and preset does not mean that all religions or their members are made of the same fabric.
  19. backbeat's Avatar
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    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    The point is just because the name of religion has been used and abused in the past and preset does not mean that all religions or their members are made of the same fabric.
    No, but those above are the historical reasons for religion's existence, i.e. to differentiate.
  20. #140  
    Folks differentiate all day long, every day. Sometimes in the name of religion, but most often not.

    Otherwise, why would one post?
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