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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    We see the same in humans all the time. Does not mean we do not have the capacity for moral behavior. The more closely we observe animals, the less unique humans appear. If a dolphin is prepared to exert itself to support an ill partner, who are we to say we are more moral for looking after an ill family member? And when an animal adopts another's child, why are we suddenly more moral for doing the same?

    We may feel our behavior is more sophisticated and well developed, but it does not mean our behavior is unique in any way.

    Surur
    My point was not a case for the superiority of humans. My point is that behavior observed within many species appears contradictary to the notion of self-preservation.
  2. #82  
    It is expected of the human to show compassion; it is not expected of an animal. Not unique, just expected. Ben
  3. #83  
    I have seen a couple of flicks in school that showed chimp raiding parties on other groups and the slaughter involved. His example was one sided without a mention of their other tendencies.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Understood. I just haven't seen a presentation of "morality" in animals.

    This thread was initiated with reference to observation of behavior in animals wherein one member of the species acted in a manner which put at risk its own survival while furthering the likelihood of survival of another member. It did not provide explanation as to the motivation for the behavior.

    Do apes "believe" it is "wrong" to act in a manner that harms another ape? Doubtful, since we've seen scenarios where one ape kills another, or drives others away.

    But, that would be a measure of morality.

    Logically speaking, morality seems counter-productive to survival. Yet, morality is prevalent. Things like justice, honesty, fidelity, peace, and liberty help preserve the species well, but do not give advantage to any particular member. Yet, somehow, we each tend to suscribe to the sense that such characteristics are worthy of promotion.

    Perhaps the case could be made that we are each "wired" with a tendency towards promotiong the survival of the species, even at the expense of our own individual survival. If that is the case, though, we have moved out of the realm of morality.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I have seen a couple of flicks in school that showed chimp raiding parties on other groups and the slaughter involved. His example was one sided without a mention of their other tendencies.

    Ben
    But humans do this too, and all the time. Think of the millions killed in the second world war, the brutality of Stalin, the Salem witch trials, the extermination of the Aztecs etc etc. Have we not been called the violent ape? I suspect from a bird eye view we would not come across very well.

    To put a different spin on it, God may be much happier with godless Sweden with universal health care and generous benefits and wealth redistribution, than religious America with its increasing wealth gap and low minimum wage.

    Surur
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