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  1. #21  
    " By: sblanter at Today 02:50 AM

    I think clulup even stated Bush was right on one account! The horror of it all! "

    BTW, that didn't happen here, it was in another thread
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    in his post
    care to be more specific?
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    going against the troops was clearly the way to go
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    in his post
    Thanks for asking, Toolkit. I'm curious, too... I mean, he would certainly admit it if the above was a false allegation, wouldn't he?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #24  
    Do you really find it that hard to read? He had made one post.

    As I said, clulup showed disregard for the health of American troops:
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Of course water treatment may be bad/not as good as it could/should be, US soldiers will get the occasional diarrhea, but hardly any serious, let alone lasting health problems from that.
    Depending on the cause, diarrhea can be very serious. With the modern medical care that soldiers have access to, they're unlikely to die, but gastrointestinal infections can lead to chronic bowel disorders, which can have more lasting consequences than some types of wounds.


    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Thanks for asking, Toolkit. I'm curious, too... I mean, he would certainly admit it if the above was a false allegation, wouldn't he?
    If you believe it was a false allegation, say so explicitly, like this:
    Clulup, your indirect suggestion that I made a false allegation was deliberately false.

    Your comment reminds me of how FoxNews puts up absurd statements, followed by a question mark, along the lines of "Democrats hate children?" You make a false accusation, but you get away with it because you don't say it directly.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Do you really find it that hard to read? He had made one post.

    As I said, clulup showed disregard for the health of American troops:
    you are kidding right? At best you are reaching here...


    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    If you believe it was a false allegation, say so explicitly, like this:
    Clulup, your indirect suggestion that I made a false allegation was deliberately false.

    Your comment reminds me of how FoxNews puts up absurd statements, followed by a question mark, along the lines of "Democrats hate children?" You make a false accusation, but you get away with it because you don't say it directly.
    once again you are reaching, his statement was clearly tongue in cheeck...
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    you are kidding right? At best you are reaching here...
    No. And no.

    once again you are reaching, his statement was clearly tongue in cheeck...
    That's exactly the point. For that reason, you're willing to let him get away with making a false accusation.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    That's exactly the point. For that reason, you're willing to let him get away with making a false accusation.
    come on diarea is hardly a serious condition, especially with the health care soldiers get.
    Yes if untreated it could lead into complications but diarea itself isnt lifethreathening.. lots of people get it and survive.. I'm the living proof of that..

    so by saying the worst that could happen is a case of diarea does not equate to showing disregard..
    I think your past experiences are clouding your judgement here..
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    come on diarea is hardly a serious condition, especially with the health care soldiers get.
    Yes if untreated it could lead into complications but diarea itself isnt lifethreathening.. lots of people get it and survive.. I'm the living proof of that..

    so by saying the worst that could happen is a case of diarea does not equate to showing disregard..
    I think your past experiences are clouding your judgement here..
    Diarrhea is a symptom, not a disease. As I said, the seriousness depends on the cause. Some cases can be very serious. The fact that you had traveler's diarrhea or food poisoning in the past with no long term consequences does not mean that ingesting any viruses or bacteria is always safe. Gastrointestinal infection and other water-borne diseases can lead to chronic health problems, even with proper treatment.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Diarrhea is a symptom, not a disease. As I said, the seriousness depends on the cause. Some cases can be very serious.
    so you assumed it was a serious cause clulup was refering to?
    when people refer diarea they tend to refer to having the sh*ts not to a live threatening or serious condition.
    Besides that the general tone of his post was pretty clear, to me it sounds you were looking for an excuse..
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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    so you assumed it was a serious cause clulup was refering to?
    when people refer diarea they tend to refer to having the sh*ts not to a live threatening or serious condition.
    Besides that the general tone of his post was pretty clear, to me it sounds you were looking for an excuse..
    Wrong again. This thread is about US soldiers having to drink unclean water. No assumptions. Clulup dismissed the implications as just diarrhea, a minor inconvenience to "grown-up, healthy" marines, and minimized the risk to their long-term health.

    You, the "moderator," are the one looking for an excuse to argue. Even when I tried to let your pointless question go, you persisted in arguing for no reason.


    I see a pattern in your behavior:
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    hey you are supposed to only bash bush..
    And here's another attempt of yours, unsuccessful, to start a flame war:
    http://dev.discussion.treocentral.co...d.php?t=137236
  11. #31  
    Water borne illnesses, especially cholera have killed more soldiers than combat has, over the course of history. Its common sense to be scrupulously attentive to the troops water supply. In light of the thousands dying in this mismanaged war due to other reasons, any form of common sense here is most welcome.
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       #32  
    Thankyou, cellmatrix.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  13. #33  
    Well, sorry vw (and cell), but over the course of history?? Can't be talking about GW, huh?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    As I said, clulup showed disregard for the health of American troops:
    Of course water treatment may be bad/not as good as it could/should be, US soldiers will get the occasional diarrhea, but hardly any serious, let alone lasting health problems from that.
    In my post I stated my conviction that the video is cheap Anti-Haliburton propaganda. The man in the video says they found "malaria" in the water, which is total nonsense because Plasmodia, the cause of malaria, live in exclusively in humans and adult Anopheles mosquitoes, not in the water.

    I also stated that while water treatment may not be as good as it could or should be (which implies it could or should be better IMHV), it is highly unlikely to be a cause for serious illness in US soldiers, as the man in the video claimed. The man also nearly starts crying because the soldiers may bring health hazards for their friends and relatives back home (Get tested...). This, IMHV, again totally lacks credibility, it's just cheap propaganda.

    If you think I am wrong,
    • please quote an independent source stating diseases resulting from bad drinking water are a meaningful issue for US soldiers in Iraq
    • please state which water-borne disease from Iraq can be passed on in the US by soldiers.


    Nowhere did I say it doesn't matter if US soldiers get ill from drinking bad water, I just stated I don't believe it's a problem. Also cholera luckily is not a major problem, cases are limited even in the Basra region where the situation is worst, and I am quite convinced not a single US soldier in Iraq ever had it.

    And, btw, I speak from experience. I have been living in East Africa for many months. The water for our showers came directly from a small lake full of everything you can think of, not only crocodiles and hippos. Drinking water was boiled before use, a simple precaution I am sure also the US military will perform if needed. I also had malaria, but since we had the medication for treatment, it wasn't a problem either.
    If you believe it was a false allegation, say so explicitly, like this:
    Your allegation was false, and you might as well admit it.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Wrong again. This thread is about US soldiers having to drink unclean water. No assumptions. Clulup dismissed the implications as just diarrhea, a minor inconvenience to "grown-up, healthy" marines, and minimized the risk to their long-term health.
    I think clulups last reply was clear enough, he did not say anything that was ill manered to US soldiers and you were the only one that iterpretated it that way..

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    You, the "moderator," are the one looking for an excuse to argue. Even when I tried to let your pointless question go, you persisted in arguing for no reason.
    I agrue it for a very good reason, since you seem to accuse another member without anything to back that up at first and when asked for clarification you came up with a reason that IMHO did not hold much merit.
    p.s. thank you for being predictable, I was waiting for a remark like this
    If you have a problem with me either as a mod or a regular user feel free to make a complaint
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    I see a pattern in your behavior:


    And here's another attempt of yours, unsuccessful, to start a flame war:
    http://dev.discussion.treocentral.co...d.php?t=137236
    have a look here and here hopefully you get the picture of what the meaning of my posting was..

    besides all of the above you are dancing around the issue, you falsely accused clulup that he meant ill harm to US soldiers and that clearly isnt and wasnt the case.
    I think he deserves an appology for that. plain and simple..
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 03/23/2007 at 05:11 AM.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Water borne illnesses, especially cholera have killed more soldiers than combat has, over the course of history. Its common sense to be scrupulously attentive to the troops water supply. In light of the thousands dying in this mismanaged war due to other reasons, any form of common sense here is most welcome.
    That history was mostly without antibiotics.

    Contaminated water is bad. Not as bad as getting shot or blown up. Let's save our outrage for really bad things. Any tourist who travels to Africa or South Asia (or Iraq before the war) faces the same risk when he showers or eats at the local restaurant.

    Soldiers having the runs are not effective soldiers. Halliburton should do what they are being paid to do. We should be upset at them.

    Having said all that, waterborne diseases can be handled by modern medicine just fine. I have not read anywhere that soldiers are not getting good medical care in the field. Nor have I heard of any soldier dying from this. If they are, then we REALLY have something to get outraged about.
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    That history was mostly without antibiotics.

    Contaminated water is bad. Not as bad as getting shot or blown up. Let's save our outrage for really bad things. Any tourist who travels to Africa or South Asia (or Iraq before the war) faces the same risk when he showers or eats at the local restaurant.

    Soldiers having the runs are not effective soldiers. Halliburton should do what they are being paid to do. We should be upset at them.

    Having said all that, waterborne diseases can be handled by modern medicine just fine. I have not read anywhere that soldiers are not getting good medical care in the field. Nor have I heard of any soldier dying from this. If they are, then we REALLY have something to get outraged about.
    My point was that no one should minimize the importance of field sanitation and potable water. Using antibiotics as a substitute for good sanitation just creates larger problems. For example there are now a number of strains of cholera resistant to multiple antibiotics.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    At any rate, I agree with you that this problem with the water pales in comparison to all of the other injuries and deaths our troops have suffered in this poorly implemented and poorly thought out war.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    I think clulups last reply was clear enough, he did not say anything that was ill manered to US soldiers and you were the only one that iterpretated it that way..
    Strawman. I said he showed a disregard for the health of American troops. And that's what he's doing emphatically. He's dismissing the problem as no big deal. If children at a nursery school had to drink contaminated water, it would be taken seriously, but for "grown-up, healthy" American soldiers, it's okay if they get sick.


    I agrue it for a very good reason, since you seem to accuse another member without anything to back that up at first and when asked for clarification you came up with a reason that IMHO did not hold much merit.
    I said he showed disregard for the health of American troops. You're not even debating that. No one is. You're debating whether it's okay to disregard their health

    have a look here and here hopefully you get the picture of what the meaning of my posting was..
    You may want to look at my original post.

    besides all of the above you are dancing around the issue, you falsely accused clulup that he meant ill harm to US soldiers and that clearly isnt and wasnt the case.
    I think he deserves an appology for that. plain and simple..
    I said he showed disregard for the health of American troops. That's a true statement.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    In my post I stated my conviction that the video is cheap Anti-Haliburton propaganda. The man in the video says they found "malaria" in the water, which is total nonsense because Plasmodia, the cause of malaria, live in exclusively in humans and adult Anopheles mosquitoes, not in the water.

    I also stated that while water treatment may not be as good as it could or should be (which implies it could or should be better IMHV), it is highly unlikely to be a cause for serious illness in US soldiers, as the man in the video claimed.

    If you think I am wrong,
    • please quote an independent source stating diseases resulting from bad drinking water are a meaningful issue for US soldiers in Iraq
    • please state which water-borne disease from Iraq can be passed on in the US by soldiers.
    I'm not making the claims. You are.


    Nowhere did I say it doesn't matter if US soldiers get ill from drinking bad water, I just stated I don't believe it's a problem.
    You said it's okay if American soldiers get diarrhea.


    Your allegation was false, and you might as well admit it.
    You said it's okay if American soldiers get diarrhea.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Of course water treatment may be bad/not as good as it could/should be, US soldiers will get the occasional diarrhea, but hardly any serious, let alone lasting health problems from that.
    Thank you for sharing your views clulup. If you did not appreciate that waterborne infections can occasionally produce chronic health problems, well you learned something new I guess. I see nothing in your statements that warrents accusations and personal attacks. I hope 2007 is treating you well.
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