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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Even those centrally involved in TreoCentral's operation? Say it ain't so!
    Since when is TreoCentral politics or politically motivated media?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    IMO, Limbaugh and Moore hold the exact same type of position in their respective circles. They are the Court Jesters for their viewpoints in most respects. They simply take ideas which are already present, and take them to an irreverent extreme for the purposes of infotainment. Moore is no more or less thought-leader to his devotees than Rush is to the Dittoheads.
    Moore was claiming that Bush lied long before everyone else, including Joe Wilson and various Democratic congressmen. That makes him a thought leader.
  3. #43  
    ISTR people doubting the Bushies from the get-go. I think you give Michael Moore far more credit than he deserves.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #44  
    I remember very clearly that he was the first person I ever heard claim that Bush "lied." He kept repeating it when no one else listened, not even those on the left. It took a very long time for others to follow. As for "doubting," many people disagreed with Bush and thought he was wrong, but I never heard them accuse him of lying until much later.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    I remember very clearly that he was the first person I ever heard claim that Bush "lied."
    Can you provide a date? F9/11 wasn't released until some time mid-2004. David Corn was calling him a liar at least a year before that in print. People were wondering when he was going to 'find' a reason to invade Iraq at least since the infamous Axis of Evil speech.
    He kept repeating it when no one else listened, not even those on the left.
    I don't think that qualifies him as a thought leader. A wind-up toy, maybe. Pimp for his movie, definitely. Leading thought? I'm not convinced.
    It took a very long time for others to follow.
    And how many are actually following _Moore_? Most support for Moore was more along the lines of cheering him for echoing their thoughts, not for creating them.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Can you provide a date?
    Nope. It was in some interview. The interviewer was very surprised at his use of the term "lie" in the context of Bush and Iraq. And so was I. It was the first time I had heard it.

    F9/11 wasn't released until some time mid-2004.
    It had nothing to do with F9/11.

    David Corn was calling him a liar at least a year before that in print.
    I don't know when Corn began, but I heard Moore first.

    People were wondering when he was going to 'find' a reason to invade Iraq at least since the infamous Axis of Evil speech.
    But that doesn't necessarily mean "lying."

    I don't think that qualifies him as a thought leader. A wind-up toy, maybe. Pimp for his movie, definitely. Leading thought? I'm not convinced.
    As much as people like to think they're capable of independent thought, Michael Moore shaped people's views of Bush and the war.

    And how many are actually following _Moore_? Most support for Moore was more along the lines of cheering him for echoing their thoughts, not for creating them.
    That would require that everyone be able to get these ideas independently from some other source first. But Michael Moore is the primary source of info for many people about Bush's slow reaction to 9/11, the Saudi connection, the bin Laden connection, Halliburton, and the oil motivation, among other things.
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    As much as people like to think they're capable of independent thought, Michael Moore shaped people's views of Bush and the war.

    But Michael Moore is the primary source of info for many people about Bush's slow reaction to 9/11, the Saudi connection, the bin Laden connection, Halliburton, and the oil motivation, among other things.
    This extremely subjective opinion lacks any foundation, whatsoever. Your assertion equates the public's ability to vet facts to the gullibility of those who place faith in grocery store checkout rags. What Michael Moore has spoken to had been published, openly spoken of and commented on by plenty who were actually paying attention to the chronology and facts of the sequence of events this administration took during and after 9/11.

    Seems to be you're far too spooked by conspiracy theories to place Michael Moore into rational, proper perspective.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Can you provide a date?
    Of course he cannot. He saw it on the O'Reilly Factor years ago and his Tivo ran our of disk space so he had to delete it.

    And how many are actually following _Moore_? Most support for Moore was more along the lines of cheering him for echoing their thoughts, not for creating them.
    Really? Man when I went to see F911 he was there leading us all to the local abortion clinic to abort our unwanted preganancies because we forgot to use rubbers and then had us run around naked burning churches. After that he told us he was "the one" so we followed him to moveon.org to make some more liberal lies about how Bush lied us into war.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Of course he cannot. He saw it on the O'Reilly Factor years ago and his Tivo ran our of disk space so he had to delete it.



    Really? Man when I went to see F911 he was there leading us all to the local abortion clinic to abort our unwanted preganancies because we forgot to use rubbers and then had us run around naked burning churches. After that he told us he was "the one" so we followed him to moveon.org to make some more liberal lies about how Bush lied us into war.
    Honestly, do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Honestly, do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?


    Truce?
  11. #51  
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Nope. It was in some interview. The interviewer was very surprised at his use of the term "lie" in the context of Bush and Iraq. And so was I. It was the first time I had heard it.
    I think this train of discussion is going to be fruitless without more than either of our recollections.
    It had nothing to do with F9/11.
    How could it not?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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