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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Where did his $200 million in ticket sales come from?
    It came from people who had already realized what the rest of the nation now realizes. Even the bimbo in line behind me that I laughed at for asking her boyfriend "what's farenheit 911?", now realizes she was duped.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    Which is?..
    I understand. But my point is: Mr. Moore is a selfish fellow that should be looked at as All-For-Himself guy.
    There are, I assume, many on the left that cringe when he gets himself into foolish acts because he’s been equated with the left. But put Moore’s persona in perspective, that’s all.
    Okay. Can I expect people to be able to do the same with the Coulters and Limbaughs of the world.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Okay. Can I expect people to be able to do the same with the Coulters and Limbaughs of the world.
    I can speak for myself on this: I give very little attention to Ms. Coulter and Mr. Limbaugh.
    But I hope conservatives cringe when these two speak: it should go both ways as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    There are, I assume, many on the left that cringe when he gets himself into foolish acts because he’s been equated with the left. But put Moore’s persona in perspective, that’s all.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    I can speak for myself on this: I give very little attention to Ms. Coulter and Mr. Limbaugh.
    But I hope conservatives cringe when these two speak: it should go both ways as well.
    When they speak inappropriately, yes. Or when they're caught doing this or that. People just seem to have such a hard time differentiating the message from the messenger.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    When they speak inappropriately, yes. Or when they're caught doing this or that. People just seem to have such a hard time differentiating the message from the messenger.
    Kudos.
    And although I do cringe every time someone quotes Rush, I agree with you that in general we ought to listen first, then sort out the facts and then cringe if needed…
    BTW, not to open a can of warms again (oops): not all F-9/11 was fictional!
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    BTW, not to open a can of warms again (oops): not all F-9/11 was fictional!
    You are right, the credits are factually correct that Michael Moore is the director.
  7. #27  
    Can you even be sure of that???
  8.    #28  
    At least I would go as far as the self proclaimed director.....
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    I think you are dumbing-down the left’s ability to think for itself (and, after all, the left consists of a rainbow of people).
    If Moore has had that much influence on the left and on it’s ability to make coherent decisions then I’d say the left deserves what Moore’s getting.
    *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    So Mr. Moore was right: Prez. Bush lied to us!
  10.    #30  
    If anyone is interested here is Michael Moore's latest endeavor:

    MOORE'S 'SICKO' STUNT TAKES 9/11 WORKERS TO CUBA

    April 15, 2007 -- Filmmaker Michael Moore's production company took ailing Ground Zero responders to Cuba in a stunt aimed at showing that the U.S. health-care system is inferior to Fidel Castro's socialized medicine, according to several sources with knowledge of the trip.

    The trip was to be filmed as part of the controversial director's latest documentary, "Sicko," an attack on American drug companies and HMOs that Moore hopes to debut at the Cannes Film Festival next month.

    Two years in the making, the flick also takes aim at the medical care being provided to people who worked on the toxic World Trade Center debris pile, according to several 9/11 workers approached by Moore's producers.

    ---------------------

    Responders were told Cuban doctors had developed new techniques for treating lung cancer and other respiratory illness, and that health care in the communist country was free, according to those offered the two-week February trip.

    Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its cancer treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year, according to The Associated Press.

    In 2004 the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana, according to the AP.

    Regardless, some ill 9/11 workers balked at Moore's idea.

    -------------------------

    Another ill worker who said he was willing to take the trip ended up being stiffed by Moore.

    Michael McCormack, 48, a disabled medic who found an American flag at Ground Zero that once flew atop the Twin Towers, was all set to go to.


    The film crew contacted him by phone and took him by limo from his Ridge, L.I., home to Manhattan for an on-camera interview.

    "What he [Moore] wanted to do is shove it up George W's rear end that 9/11 heroes had to go to a communist country to get adequate health care," said McCormack, who suffers from chronic respiratory illness.


    But McCormack said he was abandoned by Moore. At a March fund-raiser for another 9/11 responder in New Jersey, McCormack learned Moore had gone to Cuba without him.

    "It's the ultimate betrayal," he said. "You're promised that you're going to be taken care of and then you find out you're not. He's trying to profiteer off of our suffering."

    -----------------

    Some called the trip a success, at least logistics-wise.

    "From what I heard through the grapevine, those people that went are utterly happy," said John Feal, who runs the Fealgood Foundation to help raise money for responders and was approached by Moore to find responders willing to take the trip.

    "They got the Elvis treatment."

    Although he has been a critic of Cuba, Moore grew popular there after a pirated version of his movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11," was played on state-owned TV.

    SOURCE: NYPost
  11.    #31  
    Apparently there is an issue with his trip to Cuba with the Treasury Dept:

    U.S. Treasury investigating Michael Moore
    Agency questioning legality of filmmaker's trip to Cuba with 9/11 workers


    The investigation provides another contentious lead-in for a provocative film by Moore, a fierce critic of President Bush. In the past, Moore’s adversaries have fanned publicity that helped the filmmaker create a new brand of opinionated blockbuster documentary.

    “Sicko” promises to take the health-care industry to task the way Moore confronted America’s passion for guns in “Bowling for Columbine” and skewered Bush over his handling of Sept. 11 in “Fahrenheit 9/11.”

    -----------------------

    The Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control notified Moore in a letter dated May 2 that it was conducting a civil investigation for possible violations of the U.S. trade embargo restricting travel to Cuba. A copy of the letter was obtained Tuesday by the AP.

    “This office has no record that a specific license was issued authorizing you to engage in travel-related transactions involving Cuba,” Dale Thompson, OFAC chief of general investigations and field operations, wrote in the letter to Moore.

    In February, Moore took about 10 ailing workers from the Ground Zero rescue effort in Manhattan for treatment in Cuba, said a person working with the filmmaker on the release of “Sicko.” The person requested anonymity because Moore’s attorneys had not yet determined how to respond.......Moore declined to comment, said spokeswoman Lisa Cohen.

    -------------------

    After receiving the letter, Moore arranged to place a copy of the film in a “safe house” outside the country to protect it from government interference, said the person working on the release of the film.

    The letter noted that Moore applied Oct. 12, 2006, for permission to go to Cuba “but no determination had been made by OFAC.” Moore sought permission to travel there under a provision for full-time journalists, the letter said.

    ------------------

    Potential penalties for violating the embargo were not indicated. In 2003, the New York Yankees paid the government $75,000 to settle a dispute that it conducted business in Cuba in violation of the embargo. No specifics were released about that case.

    Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18590557/
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    #32  
    Firing blanks? You Republicans in-drag keep the attack machinery focused on sideshow distractions since there's not much else the GOP can speak of except for this week's new version of 'stay the course'. You're one of the best Democrat recruiting tools America has. At least the Liberals here acknowledge that they are, in fact, Liberals. And just like our Deist Founding Fathers, damn proud of it.
  13. #33  
    Michael Moore is one of the reasons I call myself an independent. He is so far out there it is hard to believe anyone takes him serious. That said, I do not think he shapes liberal, dems, moderates way of thinking at all. The difference with Michael Moore and the right-wing radicals is that Moore is a film director that makes movies. You may disagree with his efforts to make some of his films look like they are based in fact, but in the end he is a hollywood director making movies.

    Contrast that with real cable news networks that hosts the likes of Glen Beck and Bill O'Reilly and frankly I just don't see where the two are apples to apples in any way. Now if you can show me a right-winged film director that makes movies that are loosely based (in the case of Moore, this is generous) on reality then we can compare more fairly.

    In any event, Moore is an ***** but I guess I never thought of him as anybody but someone that makes crap up to sell movie tickets.

    BTW - I think the $200MM in ticket sales had a lot more to do with existing anger toward Bush rather than acceptance of what Moore put forth. I went to see the film because I hated Bush, hated the lies about the war, and hoped for something that was based on facts not fiction - I left disappointed, but paid the price of admission nonetheless.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Firing blanks? You Republicans in-drag keep the attack machinery focused on sideshow distractions since there's not much else the GOP can speak of except for this week's new version of 'stay the course'. You're one of the best Democrat recruiting tools America has. At least the Liberals here acknowledge that they are, in fact, Liberals. And just like our Deist Founding Fathers, damn proud of it.

    This was asked on this forum before but I have yet to see an answer - what is a liberal? I mean I know the right has painted liberals as left-over hippie tree-huggers that use abortion as a form of contraception from their unwanted pregnancy from their affair with an intern. Toss in their hatred for god; love of terrorist; attempts to confiscate ALL of your guns; desirous of teaching your kids the "gay way"; and endless government handouts, and I think I've summed up the right wing definition of "liberals".

    But seriously....what is a liberal?
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    #35  
    Because the values of a Liberal cannot be defined by lowest common denominator methods such as those used by the loyal opposition, I would suggest a primer or 2, such as In Our Defense: The Bill of Rights in Action or Novus Ordo Seclorum: The Intellectual Origins of the Constitution to obtain an honest portrayal of what it means to be both an American and a Liberal.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    The issue is how much Moore has shaped the left's thinking. He was a thought-leader for the left on issues like "Bush lied," the oil motivation, and his slow reaction to 9/11, when Bush and the war were still relatively popular. Democratic leaders didn't pick up on these themes until after the public swung around, thanks to Moore.

    Rush is hardly a thought leader for conservatives.
    IMO, Limbaugh and Moore hold the exact same type of position in their respective circles. They are the Court Jesters for their viewpoints in most respects. They simply take ideas which are already present, and take them to an irreverent extreme for the purposes of infotainment. Moore is no more or less thought-leader to his devotees than Rush is to the Dittoheads.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    BTW, not to open a can of warms again (oops): not all F-9/11 was fictional!
    I wouldn't call any of it fictional. I would say that it was deceitful in some ways, but not fictional.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #38  
    As soon as everyone realized that in politics (and politically motivated media) everyone has an agenda, the better.

    It doesn't mean that someone's points or evidence may be invalid or wrong, it means that they are viewing and presenting the facts through their own bias and perception. And when trying to objectively assess the information, that needs to be considered.

    Too many times people will discredit or reject an opposing viewpoint simply because of bias, while automatically accepting an agreeing viewpoint without any critical analysis of bias as well.

    Chris
  19. backbeat's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjvitek View Post
    As soon as everyone realized that in politics (and politically motivated media) everyone has an agenda, the better.
    Even those centrally involved in TreoCentral's operation? Say it ain't so!
  20. #40  
    did Mikey Moore ever HAVE any credibility? just wonderin here.....
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