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  1.    #21  
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    ...$359,000,000,000.00 ...
    $369,859,563,095 about 5 minutes ago..!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Let me rephrase: How can finishing the job in Iraq prevent attacks like 9/11? By creating a stable country that’s more willing to have productive rather than hostile relations with its neighbors and that doesn’t knowingly harbor and/or fund terrorists (no, not just AQ).
    Stop fooling yourself. Sadly, NOTHING points to the US being able to "finish the job" according to the grandiose plans of grandiose Bush administration. The plan was out of synch with reality from the start, AND executed as stupidly as one would expect from somebody with the capabilities of GWB. The result is more chaos in the Middle East and (among other things) massively decreased options regarding Iran/their nuclear program,

    Why, oh why did you elect this person? Was he really the best the US political system had to offer? Will those who come after him also be strategically challenged and ignorant about the big wide world?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Stop fooling yourself. Sadly, NOTHING points to the US being able to "finish the job" according to the grandiose plans of grandiose Bush administration. The plan was out of synch with reality from the start, AND executed as stupidly as one would expect from somebody with the capabilities of GWB. The result is more chaos in the Middle East and (among other things) massively decreased options regarding Iran/their nuclear program,
    Well, I'm just glad the people who actually know what the situation is from the inside aren't as pessimistic as you.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Well, I'm just glad the people who actually know what the situation is from the inside aren't as pessimistic as you.
    And who are these "people" what "actually" is the state of the situation?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Well, I'm just glad the people who actually know what the situation is from the inside aren't as pessimistic as you.
    Thats the problem. The people in charge are not in contact with reality.

    Surur
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Well, I'm just glad the people who actually know what the situation is from the inside aren't as pessimistic as you.
    Interestingly enough, the one that should have known the situation from the inside – indeed he was the inside! – had to resign. And several top generals agreed with his resignation.

    Retired Generals Call....
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Why, oh why did you elect this person? Was he really the best the US political system had to offer? Will those who come after him also be strategically challenged and ignorant about the big wide world?
    I don’t know that it is possible to elect the “best” person for the presidency since “best,” or even “better,” are relative terms. Still, I agree that GWB had a dubious resume for this job.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And who are these "people" what "actually" is the state of the situation?
    **** "last throes" Cheny
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  10.    #30  
    By the way, I hope you guys read the column (or listened to the podcast) I posted about in OP.

    My intent here was not to start a debate. We all know where we are on this by now. The goal was to inform about the ever-changing dynamics in the region.

    US is supporting militant Islamic Salafi (who hate US) to counter the Shia (who hate US). It looks like a classic no-win situation.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  11. #31  
    Just to throw this out there, but one wonders why he should have a better grasp on the situation than anyone else, just because he agrees with our views?

    I'm sure hoovs will agree that this seems to be one case where history will be written only one page at a time.

    Surur
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    My intent here was not to start a debate. We all know where we are on this by now. The goal was to inform about the ever-changing dynamics in the region.
    The article is a good read indeed. The thing is, the Middle East is such volatile hot-potato that it evokes reactions that lead to debates. It's OK I think.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And who are these "people" what "actually" is the state of the situation?
    Feel free to read the ISG report.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    I don’t know that it is possible to elect the “best” person for the presidency since “best,” or even “better,” are relative terms. Still, I agree that GWB had a dubious resume for this job.
    Aside from not serving a stint as AG, how is his resume that different than the previous President's?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Aside from not serving a stint as AG, how is his resume that different than the previous President's?
    I never said his resume was better or worse than former presidents, it just that there wasn't much to write home about. I have said that about Hillary too as she's entering the 2008 race. I am merely pointing out that how we feel about candidates is all too relative.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish View Post
    I never said his resume was better or worse than former presidents, it just that there wasn't much to write home about. I have said that about Hillary too as she's entering the 2008 race. I am merely pointing out that how we feel about candidates is all too relative.
    I agree with you on that. We residents of California gave the Governator a huge pass on a very light resume just because of who he is. Now we're getting burned.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And who are these "people" what "actually" is the state of the situation?
    Most likely George "Mission Accomplished" Bush, or maybe George "Bring them on" Bush?

    Or could it be "We know where the WMD are" Rumsfeld?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Most likely George "Mission Accomplished" Bush, or maybe George "Bring them on" Bush?

    Or could it be "We know where the WMD are" Rumsfeld?
    Or, the ISG.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Or, the ISG.
    It seems that you don't know the recommendations of the ISG and how disastrous they view the situation in Iraq. If you are such a fan of the ISG, I am sure you are mad at Bush because he failed to follow a single one of their recommendations?

    The Iraq Study Group Report: The Way Forward – A New Approach is the report of the Iraq Study Group, as mandated by the United States Congress. It is an assessment of the state of the war in Iraq as of December 6, 2006, when the ISG released the report to the public on the Internet and as a published book.[1]

    According to the Executive Summary of the report, page 16, as quoted, "The Iraqi government should accelerate assuming responsibility for Iraqi security by increasing the number and quality of Iraqi Army brigades. While this process is under way, and to facilitate it, the United States should significantly increase the number of U.S. military personnel, including combat troops, imbedded in and supporting Iraqi Army units. As these actions proceed, U.S. combat forces could begin to move out of Iraq." "The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating."[2] The report recommends that the U.S. should eventually end combat operations in Iraq and help in training Iraqi troops.[3] It does not, however, endorse a complete removal of troops from Iraq by a specific date.[4]

    ...

    Underreporting of violence in Iraq

    The report also finds that the U.S. government intentionally misled the world by systematically distorting information about the violence in Iraq. As Associated Press Military Writer Robert Burns reports:

    * The panel pointed to one day last July when U.S. officials reported 93 attacks or significant acts of violence. Yet a careful review of the reports for that single day brought to light 1,100 acts of violence. The standard for recording attacks acts as a filter to keep events out of reports and databases ... Good policy is difficult to make when information is systematically collected in a way that minimizes its discrepancy with policy goals.[15]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Study_Group_Report
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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