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  1.    #1  
    Does this chracterization resonate?

    "Sexual conservatives," Luker explains, " . . . believe that humans are fundamentally capable of the worst, and that it is only the combined power of an internal morality and external constraints that keeps most of us on the straight-and-narrow most of the time." And this, she shows, is why we argue for "firm structures" and the teaching of moral boundaries. On the other hand, she says, "sexual liberals see a world in which the only way a diverse and heterogeneous group of people can be trusted to make good moral decisions is to ensure that all of them have the maximum amount of information possible." So sexual liberals fight to give children as much sexual information as possible as early as possible, thinking "that if their children are given education and information, they will grow up to be morally good adults."
  2. #2  
    Major flaw there - who is to say whats "morally good" in the first place? To give a concrete example, in India you may be expected to have sex with the husband of your parents choosing, whereas in the west this would seem wrong and perverse.

    Surur
  3. #3  
    "Moral" is a word seized by one group to condemn another they see as being "less virtuous". At the core of the concept you will find the root cause of our war with Iraq, which is essentially an extention of The Cruscades.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Major flaw there - who is to say whats "morally good" in the first place? To give a concrete example, in India you may be expected to have sex with the husband of your parents choosing, whereas in the west this would seem wrong and perverse.

    Surur
    While one may not ascribe to the notion of a universal moral code, each society certainly has established behavioral boundaries (be they legislated or simply held in common).

    Besides that, though, are these accurate characterizations of the views of "conservatives" and "liberals"? (in this regard, sex education is one of many theaters in which the struggles between these groups occur)
  5. #5  
    I'm not sure a true liberal would subscribe to the "morally good adults" statement, so I'm sure the text must have been written by a conservative.

    I would try and teach my children to be safe and happy. Its unfair to enforce your moral code on your children.

    e.g. a while ago my 8 year old daughter asked me if women can be married to other women. Now this is obviously a loaded question, and can be the starting point of a huge indoctrination spree (e.g. of course not, it would make God very unhappy etc) but of course it was asked in the context of playing with her 100's of barbies, with not enough ken's around. My answer was then simply: In some places yes, and in other places not.

    One should certainly only give the appropriate amount of information, and only as much as the child is asking for, while keeping them safe, but one should not use the obligation to educate your child as an opportunity to indoctrinate your child either.

    Surur
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas View Post
    "Moral" is a word seized by one group to condemn another they see as being "less virtuous". At the core of the concept you will find the root cause of our war with Iraq, which is essentially an extention of The Cruscades.
    There is no conceivable link between the current war with Iraq and the Crusades.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    There is no conceivable link between the current war with Iraq and the Crusades.
    You're right. It's not a Christian versus Muslim thing at all. Sorry to have drawn that conclusion.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Does this chracterization resonate?
    "sexual liberals" fight to provide adolescents with the facts regarding unwanted pregnancies and STDs as those are negative states and can best be avoided with facts.

    One of which, and only ONE, is the fact that abstinence is the best means of avoiding these two negative states, HOWEVER, with all the information they'll always be better armed.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Does this chracterization resonate?
    I think it's a fair generalization but, as with most things, the truth is in the details. For example, I don't think many conservatives truly believe moral guidance alone, devoid of some sort of sex education, is the only answer. Likewise, probably only very few liberal ideologues would agree that education alone, devoid of any moral guidance, will provide a person with the ability to make good life choices.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    who is to say whats "morally good" in the first place? ...
    You do a pretty good job
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Major flaw there
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    ... Its unfair to...
    One should certainly only ...
    but one should not...
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I'm not sure a true liberal would subscribe to the "morally good adults" statement, so I'm sure the text must have been written by a conservative. ...
    Surur
    Source
    Kristin Luker is Professor of Sociology and a professor in the Jurisprudence and Social Policy Program (Boalt Hall School of Law) at the University of California, Berkeley. She is the author of many scholarly articles, as well as three books: Taking Chances: Abortion and the Decision Not to Contracept (1975), Abortion and the Politics of Motherhood (1984) and Dubious Conceptions: The Politics of Teenage Pregnancy (1996). She is currently at work on her fourth book, tentatively entitled Bodies and Politics, which is about sex education controversies in the United States.

    Professor Luker has been elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the Sociological Research Association, and was invited to the White House by President Clinton to discuss issues of politics and social policy. She has been awarded grants from the Spencer and Ford Foundations, as well as the Commonwealth Fund, and has won fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. Her book Abortion and the Politics of Motherhood was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    You do a pretty good job
    mmm good point. I guess fairness and tolerance is a moral stance also.

    Surur

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