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  1.    #1  
    China commits some of the most unbelievable acts. Here is one of the latest:

    China's Army Harvesting Body Parts From Live Prisoners

    China's military is harvesting organs from unwilling live prison inmates, mostly Falun Gong practitioners, for transplants on a large scale — including to foreign recipients — according to a study.

    ------------------

    Matas and Kilgour's second report, released today, includes interviews with organ recipients in 30 countries and Canadian hospital staff who cared for more than 100 patients who had undergone suspicious transplant surgeries in China.

    "The involvement of the People's Liberation Army in these transplants is widespread,'' Kilgour said at a press conference.

    Like many civilian hospitals in rural China, military hospitals turned to selling organs to make up for government funding cuts in the 1980s, the report said.

    -----------------

    "Recipients often tell us that even when they receive transplants at civilian hospitals, those conducting the operation are military personnel,'' the report said.

    Hospitals in Canada's biggest cities — Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto — confirmed "a substantial number'' of Canadians had travelled to China for dubious organ transplants, Kilgour said.

    "We're in the three digits, up over 100 (from Canada each year), and the trend is accelerating,'' Matas said.

    FULL STORY: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249622,00.html
  2. vw2002's Avatar
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    #2  
    China is a truly disturbing place.
    There are soul-less people living there it would seem.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  3. #3  
    This is old news and was reported on about 10 years ago. Ben
  4.    #4  
    And then it is not even more disturbing that it is not only still happening but increasing?
  5. #5  
    We have a Faustian agreement with communist China: They do as they please.. as long as they buy our Treasury Bonds (to fund our tax cuts) and sell us cheap goods.

    Very different from our hard-line stance against communist Cuba.
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    Aloke
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  6. #6  
    With the changes to their economy and people obtaining more freedom, one wonders why the people allow this to happen. Other countries fall when the government continues with repression as the economy improves. Give me the west any time - give me the USA all the time.

    Ben
  7. #7  
    Come on guys, the Falun Gong allegation David Kilgour’s promoting has been discredited by multiple undercover investigation.

    US government and Chinese dissident investigations:

    1) http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf (section CRS-7)

    http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/di...wf-latest.html

    2) http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060806_1.htm

    http://www.cicus.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=6492

    3) http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/docu...20synopsis.pdf (page 3)

    As you can see, the hospital Falun Gong accused is partly owned by a Malaysian health care company and is subject to oversight beyond Chinese authority.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    We have a Faustian agreement with communist China: They do as they please.. as long as they buy our Treasury Bonds (to fund our tax cuts) and sell us cheap goods.
    Very impressed how you turned organ harvesting from live prisoners from China's military to an American political party line talking point about tax cuts.

    Actually we had a China thread going for a while dealing with America's growing concerns about China's threat of nuke strikes against the US, their unexplained military build up, their illegal tactics against the global market, oil consumption threat and their possible ability to throw us into an oil crisis if desired, ties with Iran, etc...... that does not even address their human rights issues within their own state and how we have started to address these concerns. And I stress a very small and weak start.
  9. #9  
    That’s not to say China is perfect and there’s no problem or abuse, of course.

    While China’s human rights record should be examined, fabricating charges and writing allegory of “Schindler’s List” is not the way.

    In addition to being contradicted by secret investigations inside China, David Kilgour’s Falun Gong report was reviewd and discredited by congressional researchers.

    All my citations are sourced. I welcome any correction.

    In “The Collateral of Suppression”, a report critical of China written for Senator Dianne Feinstein, member of US Congressional Executive Committee on China (CECC), congressional researchers Emma Ashburn
    and Thomas Lum were quoted:

    “Emma Ashburn, a research associate at the Congressional-Executive Committee on China (CECC), said that the Matas-Kilgour report really “offered nothing new” in terms of evidence on the matter of organ harvesting. The evidence they did collect, namely the phone calls and testimonies, were dubious in their objectivity.

    Specialist in Asian Affairs at the Congressional Research Service, Thomas Lum, noted that the evidence could have easily been distorted. The individuals calling the hospitals were all affiliated with FLG, and Lum said that it is unlikely for doctors and officials working for the state to casually divulge such sensitive and damaging information so easily.

    Moreover, Lum’s efforts to contact both the Chinese journalist and doctor’s wife have been fruitless, as FLG members direct all communications toward these individuals and they often do not respond. Harry Wu, a longtime political activist known for his hardline anti-PRC views, announced on August 9, 2006 that he would challenge the allegations made by FLG about targeted organ harvesting, especially the claim about the Sujiatun concentration camp.

    About the report, the South China Morning Post reports, “Mr. Wu, who has spent 15 years gathering evidence on the harvesting of organs from executed Chinese prisoners, said the information was based on the testimony of two witnesses, neither of whom had first-hand information. He believed the reports were fabricated.” Wu had tried to follow up with the witnesses just as Lum had—to the same futility. In the face of these criticisms, including from even Wu, who formerly held friendly relations with FLG, all things considered the allegations FLG has made about a targeted campaign of state-sponsored genocide are most likely untrue.”
  10.    #10  
    I am not disagreeing with you as I only had the article source and this was the first I had personally heard of it. My questions then (playing the devil's advocate):

    • Why is the Canadian Gov getting reports of over a hundred a year getting transplants during trips to China?
    • Is lack of evidence confirmation this program does not exist? Wu only visited two prisons and two hospitals. The US Embassy only went to the area reported to have happened. After word got out, could they have the capabilities to move the operation of this size?
    • The article I quoted is dealing with a new report that just came out Feb 1st (7 months after the reports your quoted from Mr Wu), not so much dealing with the investigation from within China but with over 100 patients a year leaving Canada for a trip to China and then returning with a new organ transplant.

      Quote: Matas and Kilgour's second report, released today, includes interviews with organ recipients in 30 countries and Canadian hospital staff who cared for more than 100 patients who had undergone suspicious transplant surgeries in China.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/03/2007 at 03:33 PM.
  11. #11  
    Here's IMHO a more balanced report:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign...organtrade.htm

    That's not to say China's perfect and there's no abuse. Anyways:

    - folks come to US and Canada for transplant too, but that doesn't prove the organ is illegally harvested. The *reviesed* Kilgour report documented these cases, but offered no proof the organs were from FLG disciples.

    - Is lack of evidence confirmation this program exists?

    - The Feb 1st report is in fact a *revised* version of the original report. I've read both.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Very impressed how you turned organ harvesting from live prisoners from China's military to an American political party line talking point about tax cuts.
    Why do you think US (the champion of human rights everywhere else) is so silent about repression in China?
    We are looking out for our interests. Not that there's anything wrong with that ...
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    Aloke
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  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    Why do you think US (the champion of human rights everywhere else) is so silent about repression in China?
    We are looking out for our interests. Not that there's anything wrong with that ...
    Now that statement I can appreciate. In answer to your question though, I think one reason is that China can offer so many threats to the US....economically, oil supply, militarily, nuke threat, man power, etc... If we ever did come toe to toe with China, I personally have little doubt that they would be the biggest foe that we have ever faced in History that could do a whole of damage beyond armies and bombs.....minus the unbalance of resources, man power, money, etc. during the Revolutionary War against the British.
  14. #14  
    Some other sages (on Charlie Rose) have also said that they see a big clash of the titans coming up between US and China in the future.

    Unless China implodes under the weight of it's environmental problems and the big concentration of wealth in the cities (leaving the vast rural areas in poverty and potentially, turmoil).
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
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