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  1.    #1  
    China is a scary nation on many levels...military threats against the US, unfair global economic practices, potential intential threat to oil supply and demand, and human rights issues. Here is another one of them:

    China's Religious Affairs Bureau Arrests 3 Christians in Christmas Celebration Raid

    SHANGHAI, China Police arrested three Christian church leaders in a raid on a gathering at a private home in northeastern China, a U.S.-based monitoring group reported Wednesday.

    About 30 policemen and officials from the local government's Religious Affairs Bureau took part in the Dec. 29 raid on the home in Duolun

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    The officials declared the service an "illegal gathering," the association said, a reflection of China's policy of permitting worship only in official churches whose clergy and activities are tightly controlled by the officially atheistic communist government.

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    Activists in the unofficial church are frequently sentenced to up to three years in prison camps, part of a system called reeducation through labor that sidesteps the need for a criminal trial.

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    While repression against unofficial church groups varies by region, the central government has enacted measures demanding such groups either register and accept government supervision, or face harsh punishment.

    Yet with numbers of Christians growing across the country, millions still risk harassment and arrest by worshipping independently, often in private homes.

    FULL STORY
  2. #2  
    Agreed. Let's all try to remember this the next time we pull in a Wal-Mart parking lot eh?

    Let's also reflect on that glorious U.S. First Amendment and remind ourselves that our right to individual religious expression is protected from just this type of crap.
  3. #3  
    now you know how the rest of us feel when one interferes with one's individual freedoms
    e.g.
    the right to choose.
    In some christian countries a woman who is suspected of having had an abortion is forced to undergo a vaginal exam by a state doctor (aka a crime scene investigation) and if found guilty faces serious jail time...or worse.
  4.    #4  
    I would have to say the debate between a family celebrating Christmas in the privacy of their own home with no harm to anyone and whether killing a baby fetus is a moral and inherited right of the mother or the unborn child are not on the same level......or do you?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    now you know how the rest of us feel when one interferes with one's individual freedoms
    e.g.
    the right to choose.
    In some christian countries a woman who is suspected of having had an abortion is forced to undergo a vaginal exam by a state doctor (aka a crime scene investigation) and if found guilty faces serious jail time...or worse.
    Which one is that?
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    now you know how the rest of us feel when one interferes with one's individual freedoms
    e.g.
    the right to choose.
    In some christian countries a woman who is suspected of having had an abortion is forced to undergo a vaginal exam by a state doctor (aka a crime scene investigation) and if found guilty faces serious jail time...or worse.
    And how does it apply to this discussion?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I would have to say the debate between a family celebrating Christmas in the privacy of their own home with no harm to anyone and whether killing a baby fetus is a moral and inherited right of the mother or the unborn child are not on the same level......or do you?
    baby fetus???
    I decline the invitation to rehash choice vs lack there of debate.
    The issue is invasion of privacy to curtail personal freedom.

    I agree that celebrating christmas in the privacy of your home (or in public) is your business and no one elses. I disagree that the practice is 'harmless'.
    What I do with my body and it's parts is my business.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    I decline the invitation to rehash choice vs lack there of debate.
    Sorry, I don't think you can avoid it. When you start talking about what you do with your body then you are rehashing the debate.
  9. #9  
    Just remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. The right to choose any religion must, be definition, include the right to choose no religion. Something many Christian conservatives want us to forget.

    There's simply no question that China is an immoral, repressive and vicious regime, and the world's lust for money and profit moves most people to overlook it. But while we're remembering China's anti-Christian bias, let's not forget much of Christianity's anti-muslim bias.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Just remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. The right to choose any religion must, be definition, include the right to choose no religion. Something many Christian conservatives want us to forget.
    Possibly, but I don't know a single one personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    But while we're remembering China's anti-Christian bias, let's not forget much of Christianity's anti-muslim bias.
    China is a state, Christianity is a religion. Religions are belief systems and, as such, are biased against systems that hold opposing beliefs. Christianity, in that respect, is no different than every other religion.
  11. vw2002's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Just remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. The right to choose any religion must, be definition, include the right to choose no religion. Something many Christian conservatives want us to forget.
    CHOOSE CHRISTIANITY OR ELSE, FOOLS, or youre damned to hell forever!!



    [QUOTE/]There's simply no question that China is an immoral, repressive and vicious regime, and the world's lust for money and profit moves most people to overlook it. But while we're remembering China's anti-Christian bias, let's not forget much of Christianity's anti-muslim bias.[/QUOTE]

    - meyerweb



    ... and lets not forget much of radical muslims` anti-christian bias either.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    baby fetus???
    I decline the invitation to rehash choice vs lack there of debate.
    The issue is invasion of privacy to curtail personal freedom.

    I agree that celebrating christmas in the privacy of your home (or in public) is your business and no one elses. I disagree that the practice is 'harmless'.
    What I do with my body and it's parts is my business.
    What the hell is this supposed to mean? Celebrating Christmas is harmful? Please do explain.
  13. vw2002's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    baby fetus???
    I decline the invitation to rehash choice vs lack there of debate.
    The issue is invasion of privacy to curtail personal freedom.

    I agree that celebrating christmas in the privacy of your home (or in public) is your business and no one elses. I disagree that the practice is 'harmless'.
    What I do with my body and it's parts is my business.
    Look out everybody, christmas is apparently more of a threat than radical islam!! To arms!! watch out, the very sight of santa, nativity scenes or christmas trees will cause all small children who are nonbelievers to lose their innocence and their inner child!

    perditac, your statement about christmas as harmful is truly asinine. whats next? the easter bunny and the tooth fairy? dude, please.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    China is a scary nation on many levels...military threats against the US, unfair global economic practices, potential intential threat to oil supply and demand, and human rights issues. Here is another one of them:

    China's Religious Affairs Bureau Arrests 3 Christians in Christmas Celebration Raid
    I once worked for the Chinese Govt. I quit after 9 months. They are ruthless and dishonest. Further, they are the ultimate in animal cruelty. I try very hard not to buy chinese products. This is difficult, but many times alternatives are available.
  15. vw2002's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Just remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. The right to choose any religion must, be definition, include the right to choose no religion. Something many Christian conservatives want us to forget.

    But while we're remembering China's anti-Christian bias, let's not forget much of Christianity's anti-muslim bias.
    Since we`re so concerned with being "sensitive" toward muslims victimized by the biases of those big bad christians, why not look at the whole picture here? Check this out...

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a196d3c63c

    I thought this clip was pretty interesting... what about middle eastern racism and their ethnic biases against others not of their persuasion, eh?
    Last edited by vw2002; 01/06/2007 at 05:41 PM.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  16. #16  
    this is fun!!!!
    Lots of things being flung at me...let me address them one by one.
    First...tell me what santa and the easter bunny have to do with religion... specifically christianity.
    I dont know if the christian bible addresses abortion but it does gleefully encourage infanticide. Eg: Psalm 137 : 9. Go ahead and start another thread to spin that.
    Who mentioned radical islam??? I vote me save this one for another thread.

    Now back to the christians in china who were persecuted. That was bad. I get no delight in hearing about it.
    But christians have a long history of persecuting others for their beliefs...that too is bad.
    Invading someone's privacy micromanaging someone's life is unacceptible...christians are not the only ones who get to cry foul when that happens to them and they most certainly do not get to do it to anyone else.

    I've always had questions about the faith of my father (christianity) and even about the birth of Jesus. My questions were discouraged, and, as a child, I was even punished for bringing them up.
    In my house christmas was serious business. I repeat...Christmas is NOT harmless.

    PS I am not a dude.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Which one is that?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...932576,00.html
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by perditac View Post
    this is fun!!!!
    Lots of things being flung at me...let me address them one by one.
    First...tell me what santa and the easter bunny have to do with religion... specifically christianity.
    I dont know if the christian bible addresses abortion but it does gleefully encourage infanticide. Eg: Psalm 137 : 9. Go ahead and start another thread to spin that.
    Who mentioned radical islam??? I vote me save this one for another thread.

    Now back to the christians in china who were persecuted. That was bad. I get no delight in hearing about it.
    But christians have a long history of persecuting others for their beliefs...that too is bad.
    Invading someone's privacy micromanaging someone's life is unacceptible...christians are not the only ones who get to cry foul when that happens to them and they most certainly do not get to do it to anyone else.

    I've always had questions about the faith of my father (christianity) and even about the birth of Jesus. My questions were discouraged, and, as a child, I was even punished for bringing them up.
    In my house christmas was serious business. I repeat...Christmas is NOT harmless.

    PS I am not a dude.
    Any faith when taken to extremes is a farce. Is christianity the main offender? As far as attacking others for their beliefs or persuasions, i refer you to the link below....

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a196d3c63c


    Those arent christians doing the persecuting, perditac. These days it is other religions besides christianity who are regularly claiming persecution and racism yet the radicals in THOSE very religions are the ones committing the WORST offenses on a daily basis worldwide!!! What of that? Is christianity or christmas leading people to bomb innocent civilians today?

    If you want to talk about harmful practices, what do you think about this?

    http://www.break.com/index/marriage_..._a_muslim.html
    Last edited by vw2002; 01/07/2007 at 02:39 PM.
    I gotta have more cowbell

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