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  1.    #1  
    His new book: Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid is stirring some controversy.
    Link: Here
  2. TomUps's Avatar
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    #2  
    Why would anybody care, or buy a book written by the worst president America has ever seen?

    I wonder if in his book, he ever apologizes to the 53 Americans he left to rot for 444 days in Iran.
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    #3  
    Maybe because the Israeli/Palestine conflict has been one of the defining processes of US and British foreign policy for most of the last century.

    Arguably the Iraq invasion was in the interests of keeping Israel happy (it sure as hell wasn't for the oil - we're getting none of it).

    Take a good long read of the wikipedia pages on Israel, zionism, the history of the region (which has been well-and-truly crapped upon by the British and Americans), and it becomes readily apparent why anyone would be interested in this story. As someone intimately involved in this process, I think Carter maybe has some unique insights here that may add to the story.
  4. TomUps's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by PSB22 View Post
    Maybe because the Israeli/Palestine conflict has been one of the defining processes of US and British foreign policy for most of the last century.
    Maybe, but why do I care what the opinion of this failed president is?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSB22 View Post
    Arguably the Iraq invasion was in the interests of keeping Israel happy (it sure as hell wasn't for the oil - we're getting none of it).
    Now thats funny. So according to you, Israel was "unhappy", so the Brits and Americans invaded Iraq to cheer them up.


    Quote Originally Posted by PSB22 View Post
    Take a good long read of the wikipedia pages on Israel, zionism, the history of the region (which has been well-and-truly crapped upon by the British and Americans), and it becomes readily apparent why anyone would be interested in this story. As someone intimately involved in this process, I think Carter maybe has some unique insights here that may add to the story.
    I know the history of Israel pretty well, and have been there many times, so Im not really understanding your point.
  5. #5  
    Can't you see the Iranians concluding that the Holocost never happened and so the UN's action to form the nationstate of Israel was a mistake that they will rectify?
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    Why would anybody care, or buy a book written by the worst president America has ever seen?

    I wonder if in his book, he ever apologizes to the 53 Americans he left to rot for 444 days in Iran.
    Bush has the corner on this market. I wonder if he will ever admit his error and apologize for the thousands of lives lost at the pursuit of an undefined "victory."
    Legalbeagle
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by mesplin@earthli View Post
    Bush has the corner on this market. I wonder if he will ever admit his error and apologize for the thousands of lives lost at the pursuit of an undefined "victory."
    Do bush haters need to jump into every topic to post their thoughts, even when it has nothing to do with the topic?

    To make it easier on these people I will change my post to say Carter was the 2nd worst president the US has ever had.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by PSB22 View Post
    Arguably the Iraq invasion was in the interests of keeping Israel happy (it sure as hell wasn't for the oil - we're getting none of it)
    As someone who opposed the war in Iraq from the onset, and followed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict very closely (been to the region many times), I think this comment is unfounded and irresponsible (and please back it up if you can).
    It’s one thing to take sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as President Carter did), but it’s a different thing to make a blank statement such as the one you made.
  9. NRG
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    Why would anybody care, or buy a book written by the worst president America has ever seen?
    George is creeping up to that status quickly.
  10. #10  
    To those more familiar with the conditions in Palestine, what do you think about Carter's use of the word apartheid?
  11. TomUps's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    George is creeping up to that status quickly.
    NRG (and all other Bush haters), please look at my last post.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    To make it easier on these people I will change my post to say Carter was the 2nd worst president the US has ever had.
    Good point, because Carter indeed made the situation in the Middle East a lot better by negotiating the (lasting) peace between Israel and Egypt, while GWB has not achieved anything and only made the situation worse by his useless war in Iraq.

    But back to topic... I haven't read the book, so I can't say anything about that. Nevertheless it is obvious that any criticism of Israel is taboo for many, which is unfortunate, because Israel does a lot to make the situation worse, e.g. by continuing to build settlements in the West Bank. Some of the mess in the Middle East is Israel's fault, too, not only the Arabs/Palestinians.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup View Post
    Good point, because Carter indeed made the situation in the Middle East a lot better by negotiating the (lasting) peace between Israel and Egypt, while GWB has not achieved anything and only made the situation worse by his useless war in Iraq.

    But back to topic... I haven't read the book, so I can't say anything about that. Nevertheless it is obvious that any criticism of Israel is taboo for many, which is unfortunate, because Israel does a lot to make the situation worse, e.g. by continuing to build settlements in the West Bank. Some of the mess in the Middle East is Israel's fault, too, not only the Arabs/Palestinians.

    Yes, Carter did negotiate peace between Egypt and Israel, so thats a plus. I also give Bush a plus on the Taliban removal from Afghanistan.

    Israel deserves its fair share of criticism. It takes 2 to tango.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    NRG (and all other Bush haters), please look at my last post.
    I think Bush is a likeable person. If he was my neighbor or one of my coworkers, I would invite him to a party and enjoy chatting with him.

    But it does not change the fact that he is the most incompetent president ever.
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I think Bush is a likeable person. If he was my neighbor or one of my coworkers, I would invite him to a party and enjoy chatting with him.

    But it does not change the fact that he is the most incompetent president ever.

    So, I guess this thread has turned into a bush bashing thread, when in reality, its a Carter bashing thread.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    Yes, Carter did negotiate peace between Egypt and Israel, so thats a plus. I also give Bush a plus on the Taliban removal from Afghanistan.

    Israel deserves its fair share of criticism. It takes 2 to tango.
    I believe I am on the same page as you about this. I absolutely feel Israel has the right to defend itself against all of its hostile neighbors, and we are one of the only friends it can truly count on. At the same time, Israel could do some things better itself, including treating Palestinians in its country like first class rather than second class citizens. That would go a long way towards winning more respect from moderate arabs. That may be what Carter was referring to, although I must admit, probably like all of you, I have not yet read the book.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    So, I guess this thread has turned into a bush bashing thread, when in reality, its a Carter bashing thread.
    well you brought up the question of who was the worst president. At any rate, I agree no need to beat a dead horse here.
  18.    #18  
    I haven’t read the book but here are some excerpts from the conversation about the book from NPR:

    JACKIE NORTHAM (NPR's reporter): In the book, Carter cites failures on all sides - the Palestinians, Israel, the U.S. - to bring about a peace deal. But the book is particularly critical of Israel, likening its policies in the Palestinian territories to the former policy of apartheid in South Africa.

    Mr. DAVID MAKOVSKY (Washington Institution for Near East Policy): For me, it's regrettable. I feel that Arabs look up to President Carter, and he could tell them in very a straightforward way what they need to do. He could be critical of Israel and doing it at the same time. But I feel the overall tone of the book places virtually the entire onus of this conflict on Israel. (Carter's role as a former president, and as the winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize, carries certain obligations.)

    Mr. ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI (Former National Security Adviser): I think the point of the book is to simply remind the American people of this sort of underlying social tragedy that exists, and which has locked these two peoples in a scorpion-like embrace. And I think it's a call, in a sense, to the conscience of the outside world to do something about the situation.
  19. TomUps's Avatar
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    #19  
    Here, lets settle this whole thing now.

    Israel - go back to 1967 borders (except jewish part of jerusalem, and maybe the Golan Heights). Build very large wall around your country.

    Palestinians - recognize Israels right to exist. Remove from charter any references to Israels destruction. Establish Palestine in Gaza and all of Westbank.

    Arab States - stop invading Israel, or stop supporting (with guns or finanaces) terrorist groups that attack israel.


    There we go...wheres my noble peace prize?
    Last edited by TomUps; 12/13/2006 at 12:21 PM.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    Here, lets settle this whole thing now.

    Israel - go back to 1967 borders (except jewish part of jerusalem, and maybe the Golan Heights). Build very large wall around your country.

    Palestinians - recognize Israels right to exist. Remove from charter any references to Israels destruction. Establish Palestine in Gaza and all of Westbank.

    Arab States - stop invading Israel, or stop supporting (with guns or finanaces) terrorist groups that attack israel.


    There we go...wheres my noble peace prize?
    such a mensch you are! I wish it could happen.
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